Weakest PrCs

[rgard]

Just out of curiousity, what happened in the transition? Don't have Complete Arcane.

Can't contribute much to the conversation. Never much liked PrCs and I'm just not up to speed on many of them.

I will say that the super-specialized ones tend to very situational, and thus weaker. As a player I remember not wanting most of the PrCs available in the Draconomicon for that reason.

Yes, was just reading the Draconomicon this afternoon. The one that does look decent is the Dragonslayer. +1 BAB, 2 good saves and +1 level spellcasting at the first level. It's a good 1 level dip.

Edit: and you get proficiency with all martial weapons, all armors and most shields. Good to get if you want to avoid taking a level of Fighter or Paladin prior to Spellsword.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[rgard]

Hey, if we're allowed to abuse editing mistakes, I want to roll up a Vigilante, who gets 20 3rd level spells! And I want Arcane Strike.

Otherwise, add Vigilante to the list of Not Worth It PrCs.

Cheers, -- N

You laugh!?! I actually had a kid (teenager) show up at the store for D&D fight club with his Vigilante and 20 3rd level spells ready. He was early so he had time to roll up something else.

Thanks
Rich

 

[pawsplay]

And finally, the picture sucks.

It's not nice to make fun of badly dressed miniature Filipino boat workers who are high on meth.

 

[papastebu]

Arcane Archer from the more common ones. It gets some nifty abilities which would combine well with spellcasting, but gets no spellcasting. And its main ability is easily rivaled by a single 3rd-level spell.

Bye
Thanee

This would be my choice, too, for exactly the same reasons. I think my second would have to be the alienist. Then the true necromancer... heck, just get rid of all PrCs and give the feats and special abilities out as core-class alternate builds.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Can we at least agree that epic is orthogonal to the concept of balance as we know it, and let it go at that?

I can.

 

[moritheil]

But only on a plane that is aligned. Because it says "While you are on an aligned plane."

Similarly, you only gain a +30 foot speed on planes with no gravity or subjective gravity

But you always take your bonuses elsewhere, into other terrain. It's not that I don't see where you're coming from; it's just that we don't agree as to which portion of the text has precedence overall.

 

[moritheil]

It's because you have to multiclass out of caster, and get nothing. Your "spell rages" don't increase caster level, and are only for certain spells. Bleah.

Wait, the rage mage class itself doesn't fully advance casting? Wow, that does suck.

 

[Mistwell]

Okay, Vigilante:

- Smite the Guilty sucks. You must personally witness a crime being committed (in your home city), and then you have three days to smite the perp. This sucks for an investigator who may be called into a crime scene after the crime has already been committed. And worse for a PC, who may want to travel.

- Quick Hide sucks. It's almost totally useless as written. I think they intended to allow you to make a Bluff check and a Hide check as a single Move action, but what they wrote won't actually help you hide any quicker than you otherwise could.

- Quick Search is okay, but better for a trapmonkey.

- Streetwise sucks. Do the writers not know what streetwise means? Why not a bonus on Sense Motive, Spot, or Profession(gambler)? C'mon, people!

- The-like abilities mostly suck. There's nothing wrong with detect evil at will. As to the others... why are you giving spell-like abilities to a spellcasting class? Ah, is it because the spells are Arcane, and thus he can't use them in armor? Yes, that's right. So you're a non-primary caster who gets no special bonus to AC, and you're not going to be wearing armor. Or you're not going to be casting many spells. Wait, you won't be casting many spells anyway, because you get very few spells per day.

So. It's a 3/4 BAB class with d8 hp, 6 skill points/level (from not a terrible list, but not a great one either). Your primary casting stat is Charisma, but you don't get Use Magic Device. You also don't get Bluff. Or Diplomacy. Bleah! Never mind, it's a bad skill list.

The spell list is also insane. They give magic mouth as a 1st level spell, but put see invisibility at 3rd level. Why? Oh, and one more lovely feature: this class that can't cast in armor also lacks any of the basic armor spells. No mage armor, no shield. Good luck with that smite.

Basically, it's a grab-bag of bad mechanics, which exhibit negative synergy (when they work at all).

And finally, the picture sucks.

- - -

All that, and it ain't even the worst of the bunch. Not by a long shot.

Cheers, -- N

Wow. Thank you so much for your review. You noticed a lot of things I had not noticed when I first read the prestige class. For example, I somehow totally failed to notice that these are arcane spells and thus have arcane spell failure for casting in armor, but it doesn't come with the bard notation for casting in light armor.

I do disagree on smite the guilty. As an adventurer, that ability will be useable most of the time if adventuring in your city (which is why you would be taking this prestige class, because you are playing in something like a Ptolus campaign). If you come on a lair of rat-men currently occupying a sewer that they do not have the right to occupy from the city, and they attempt to attack you with murder in their eyes because you interupted their ritual, you have witnessed a crime and can smite. In fact, just about anyone who is trying to kill you in your city is committing a crime against you, and you can smite them. I doubt it will be hard to use during an adventure.

 

[James McMurray]

Yeah, most cities probably have laws against fighting in the streets, whether you have deadly intentions or not. Just drawing a weapon could label you as a smitable target.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Dungeon Delver, from Complete Adventurer

Okay, it's not all bad, for four levels. Of course, you either had to do a solo adventure for a week to get in, or have not died in a cave-in, or have been a dwarf. ("Hey, I lived underground an entire year when I was 12!")

But you enter at 8th level, give up your entire sneak attack progression, and get some meh abilities. Then, at class-level 4 (Min. Character Level 11), you get Improved Evasion, and at class-level 5 (Min. Character Level 12), you get Blindsense. Once/day, for (class level) minutes. (No idea what kind of action it is to turn on, either; standard, move, swift?)

Meanwhile, the scout over there has had blindsense permanently on for the last two levels. And the rogue at the other end of the bar has had improved evasion since 10th level (okay, that's only one level).

Then, later, you get into the interesting abilities...like Passwall, once/day, to get into a vault. Hope you brought a lunch and have enough air. Then we have Find the Path at 8th level (or min. character level 15), twice/day. Great! the cleric responds, that frees up a spell slot!

It's like the Complete Scoundrel classes...great if there aren't any spellcasters, lousy if there are.

Brad