Weird one - TWF and throwing in melee

[maransreth]

I thought of this while fooling around at work today and I am not sure how to rule on it. Basically with TWF, if the offhand weapon is a throwable weapon, eg handaxe, can the player attack with normal attacks with primary hand and throw the offhand weapon as part of their full round option? And what penalty would this be? I am not sure of the penalty as the -2/-2 from TWF, Ambi and light weapon is only for attacks made in melee. How does thrown weapons (ranged) count?

Following the same tangent, if the offhand hand had a Glove of Storing with an enchanted handaxe in it, and the player used an enchanted handaxe of returning in his offhand and had Expert Parry, how would you rule it? I envisage the following: Player makes full round option attack, attacks with primary weapon, throws returning handaxe, (free action) calls handaxe out of glove, continues with Offhand Parry bonus as weapon still in offhand to parry. Next round: action just before the player goes, dismisses handaxe in hand (free action), catches returning handaxe in hand and continues again if so chooses.

So this is my dilemma: Is it possible to throw an offhand weapon in melee while attacking with primary weapon and if so at what penalty? Then can the second paragraph scenario take place?
Would love to see people's comments as I am unsure.

 

[Henrix]

Yes, you can throw weapons using TWF, with the normal TWF penalties. This was used in a recent Sage Advice in Dragon, as Power Play.

Technically a Returning weapon returns just before your next turn, i.e. before you are allowed any free actions, so if you have anything in your hand at that time, you can't catch it.

(And where's 'Expert Parry'? My poor befuddled mind fails to recognize it!)

 

[maransreth]

Sorry. Me bad. it should have been Offhand Parry. I thought of that just before I came back, so I changed it now.

Thanks for the help.
BTW do you know which Power Play it was?

 

[Henrix]

I should have realized it was Offhand Parry. Didn't get no coffee this morning....

It's in Dragon #297.

 

[BIGLOU]

Let's complicate matters a bit. There is a feat (I can not think of the name) that allows you to get an extra ranged attack. Can you use that to get an extra throw?

Lou

 

[Henrix]

I suppose you could, if you have Quick Draw. All the attacks would be at -4, though.

 

[Crothian]

Actually, that Power Play was wrong. You can't use Two Weapon Fighting for ranged attacks. THe rule is on pg 100 of the PHB under Heavy Crossbow. You can still throw things as part of your attack, but they will be at -4. Then if you apply rapid shot that will increase to -6.

 

[maransreth]

Why the -4 penalty? I thought it would have been -2.
And all attacks, not just the thrown weapon are at the listed penalty?

 

[Crothian]

Why the -4 penalty? I thought it would have been -2.
And all attacks, not just the thrown weapon are at the listed penalty?

When fighting with two weapons with the Ambidexterity and 2WF feats and iwth a light weapon the penalty is -2/-2. Now, if you choose to make one of those attacks a ranged attack 2WF no longer applies, so that makes that attack at -4.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Fighting with two weapons gives you an extra attack. Rapid Shot gives you an extra ranged attack. Both give -2 to all attacks made that round.

So, say you have a +1 BAB, TWF, ambi, Rapid Shot, and are wielding two daggers. You can get up to 3 attacks that round. All attacks are at -3.

Here's the math:
*Full melee attack at +1 BAB gives you one melee attack at +1.
*Fighting with two light weapons and having TWF+Ambi gives -2 to all attacks and an additional melee attack.
*Rapid Shot gives you -2 to all attacks and an additional ranged attack.

TOTAL: 3 attacks, all at -3. Two melee and a ranged, or one melee and 2 ranged (leaving you with empty hands).

I thought that fighting with two weapons limited you to melee attacks, but that rule's not in the SRD. The SRD only mentions a generic "attack", and doesn't specify melee or ranged. So, if you've got Quickdraw and Rapid Shot you can make 3 thrown attacks at 1st level (penalties reduced by TWF and Ambi).