D&D 5E What benefit to Delayed Blast Fireball?

[KarinsDad]

Best I can tell, it does 13 D6 according to RAW. It doesn't state "end of each of your turns", it states "end of your turn". Singular. I suspect that RAI is probably 22 D6 "due to the totally accumulated damage" phrase and the spell is a lot more fun if it adjudicated that way.


I could also easily see plans of "put this in a vase and cover it up and walk away", things of that nature. The concentration rules do not appear to have range limits.

 

[Plane Sailing]

You can fire off cantrips while concentrating or other spells that don't require concentration. So you could cast a Delayed Blast Fireball, keep on firing cantrips, then unleash a regular fireball and let the delayed one go off for pretty big damage.

Or you could build it up away from battle, then let a dex based class grab it up and throw it.

Thank you. I've had a PHB for a while now, but only just getting the chance to have a read of it, and I'm still missing some of the obvious things like that.

 

[lkj]

Best I can tell, it does 13 D6 according to RAW. It doesn't state "end of each of your turns", it states "end of your turn". Singular. I suspect that RAI is probably 22 D6 "due to the totally accumulated damage" phrase and the spell is a lot more fun if it adjudicated that way.


I could also easily see plans of "put this in a vase and cover it up and walk away", things of that nature. The concentration rules do not appear to have range limits.

I'm pretty sure it works as RAW as well. If it were capped at 13d6, it would have to say 'at the end of your first turn'. I do see the confusion and it would have been nice if they had thrown an 'each' in there. But as it goes, I don't think the RAW institutes a cap anyway. Just like any other concentration spell, you apply the effects if you maintain concentration. So- end of your turn rolls around you add 1d6 so long as you are maintaining the spell. There's nothing that says you stop doing it after the first turn.

But regardless, it seems (to me) pretty clear RAI is for it to accumulate. Otherwise it would be silly to have 'base damage' and then have it go up by one at the end o the turn you cast it on (which is when the first turn ends after you cast it). Might as well just set it at 13d6.

AD

 

[Quartz]

If you let anyone else touch the bead, they have to make a Dex saving throw or it goes off, so you can't just hand it to the rogue or the archer without risking an explosion.

 

[Celtavian]

If you let anyone else touch the bead, they have to make a Dex saving throw or it goes off, so you can't just hand it to the rogue or the archer without risking an explosion.

They have the best dex saves. That's why you at least can give it a shot with them.

 

[KarinsDad]

They have the best dex saves. That's why you at least can give it a shot with them.

Same basic odds as level one. 65% save, 35% boom. The difference for the Rogue is Evasion. If it goes boom, 65% 0 damage and 35% 1/2 damage. So, about a 12% chance of taking damage (35% chance of it going boom right away times 35% chance of the Rogue taking 1/2 damage if it does).

 

[Jaelommiss]

It's worth comparing this spell with Otiluke's Freezing Sphere (PHB 263).

[TABLE="width: 500"][TR][TD]
[/TD][TD]Delayed Blast Fireball[/TD][TD]Otiluke's Freezing Sphere[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Spell Level[/TD][TD]7 evocation[/TD][TD]6 evocation[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Cast Time[/TD][TD]1 action[/TD][TD]1 action[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Range[/TD][TD]150 feet[/TD][TD]300 feet[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Components[/TD][TD]V,S,M[/TD][TD]V,S,M[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Concentration[/TD][TD]Yes, 1 min[/TD][TD]No*[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Blast Radius[/TD][TD]20 feet[/TD][TD]60 feet[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Saving Throw[/TD][TD]Dex, 1/2 dmg[/TD][TD]Con, half dmg[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Damage[/TD][TD]13-22d6 fire[/TD][TD]10d6 cold[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Portability[/TD][TD]Dex save to handle safely[/TD][TD]Safe to handle[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Special Effect[/TD][TD]Ignites flammable objects[/TD][TD]Freezes 30 foot square of
water to a depth of six inches[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]*Does not require concentration, but will detonate after 1 minute.


Looking over that, I would be inclined to take the freezing sphere over the fireball. Yes, there is lower damage, but it has far greater range, does not require concentration, is safer to move, and requires a lower spell slot. There is nothing stopping you from making a level six sphere in one turn, a level seven the next, and then using a sling to fire both at your foes. It can even help you traverse water or impede the movement of swimming foes. The biggest downside is that the thrown range on it is limited to 40 feet, placing you inside the blast radius. A sling boosts this range up to 120 feet. Additionally, less monsters are immune to cold than to fire, making it effective against a wider range of creatures.

Unless I was going against a foe that I knew had no fire resistance, was in a very enclosed space or had no minions, and I did not require concentration for anything else, I would choose the freezing sphere every time. And if I really needed to simply blast something right away I would still have the regular fireball spell.

 

[Cannyjiggit]

It's worth comparing this spell with Otiluke's Freezing Sphere (PHB 263).

[TABLE="width: 500"][TR][TD]
[/TD][TD]Delayed Blast Fireball[/TD][TD]Otiluke's Freezing Sphere[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Spell Level[/TD][TD]7 evocation[/TD][TD]6 evocation[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Cast Time[/TD][TD]1 action[/TD][TD]1 action[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Range[/TD][TD]150 feet[/TD][TD]300 feet[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Components[/TD][TD]V,S,M[/TD][TD]V,S,M[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Concentration[/TD][TD]Yes, 1 min[/TD][TD]No*[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Blast Radius[/TD][TD]20 feet[/TD][TD]60 feet[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Saving Throw[/TD][TD]Dex, 1/2 dmg[/TD][TD]Con, half dmg[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Damage[/TD][TD]13-22d6 fire[/TD][TD]10d6 cold[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Portability[/TD][TD]Dex save to handle safely[/TD][TD]Safe to handle[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Special Effect[/TD][TD]Ignites flammable objects[/TD][TD]Freezes 30 square of water[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]*Does not require concentration, but will detonate after 1 minute.


Looking over that, I would be inclined to take the freezing sphere over the fireball. Yes, there is lower damage, but it has far greater range, does not require concentration, is safer to move, and requires a lower spell slot. There is nothing stopping you from making a level six sphere in one turn, a level seven the next, and then using a sling to fire both at your foes. It can even help you traverse water or impede the movement of swimming foes. The biggest downside is that the thrown range on it is limited to 40 feet, placing you inside the blast radius. A sling boosts this range up to 120 feet. Additionally, less monsters are immune to cold than to fire, making it effective against a wider range of creatures.

Unless I was going against a foe that I knew had no fire resistance, was in a very enclosed space or had no minions, and I did not require concentration for anything else, I would choose the freezing sphere every time. And if I really needed to simply blast something right away I would still have the regular fireball spell.

Done right, you could have both detonate together along with a regular fireball as well (probably have to be a 5th level 10d6 fireball if you try it at 13th level) for a 41d6* massacre. Thats an average of 143.5 damage AE for an opening surprise attack with 3 saves required to take half.

Curious on whether DMs would allow evokers spell sculpting to affect Delayed Blast and Otilukes spheres that are not directly detonated by themselves (someone else throwing it, concentration break etc etc)


*10 for fireball, 10 for Otilukes and Delayed blast would have to finish 1 round early by being cast after the sphere so only 21.

 

[Celtavian]

Done right, you could have both detonate together along with a regular fireball as well (probably have to be a 5th level 10d6 fireball if you try it at 13th level) for a 41d6* massacre. Thats an average of 143.5 damage AE for an opening surprise attack with 3 saves required to take half.

Curious on whether DMs would allow evokers spell sculpting to affect Delayed Blast and Otilukes spheres that are not directly detonated by themselves (someone else throwing it, concentration break etc etc)


*10 for fireball, 10 for Otilukes and Delayed blast would have to finish 1 round early by being cast after the sphere so only 21.

I would allow Evokers to do it. They still cast the spell. Their special ability allows them to shape it around others. They have to be able to see the targets to do it. So no doing so from a position of full cover. I would see no problem with allowing it.

 

[Dausuul]

Same basic odds as level one. 65% save, 35% boom. The difference for the Rogue is Evasion. If it goes boom, 65% 0 damage and 35% 1/2 damage. So, about a 12% chance of taking damage (35% chance of it going boom right away times 35% chance of the Rogue taking 1/2 damage if it does).

Unfortunately, even if the rogue avoids taking damage, you still wasted your 7th-level spell slot. I wouldn't try this without at least finding a way to give the rogue advantage on the save.

I tend to agree with Jaelommiss: Otiluke's freezing sphere is more versatile, covers nine times the area, less-common damage type, safer to work with, and lower level to boot. It's generally better. Although there is one other drawback to freezing sphere--it targets Con instead of Dex. Monsters usually have higher Con than Dex, and are thus more likely to make the save. It's vastly better against rogues, of course, but most of the time the rogue is your buddy; AoE spells bypassing Evasion is a bug, not a feature.