D&D (2024) What do you expect/hope to see in future playtest packets? (+)

[Gorck]

There is maybe one monk subclass that is a trap to use.

Drunken Master makes FoB also disengage and gives a solid reaction ability.

Open Hand gives secondary effects to FoB for no extra cost, and a solid late level ability.

Sun Soul gives increased range, ant-will radiant damage, and some spells at a good ki cost. Even if you never throw a radiant fireball, the level 3 makes it an improvement on not having a subclass.

Astral whatever and dragon guy I don’t care about enough to even reread for a review.

Mercy is just good. Occasional ability that costs more than it should, or does less than it should, mostly on the healing side, but action economy is solid and it’s very fun, and the subclass adds a lot to the character.

Shadow needs better action economy, and bring the teleport at level 3, adding the advantage clause at level 6, but overall it’s still solid.

So which one is the trap: Kensai or Open Hand, or both?

 

[Remathilis]

They are going to have to give us some major spell revisions soon. We've had about a dozen spells either redone or added, and the nature of three spell lists have been morphing (as spells are being carved out and given back to classes as exclusives). They are going to need to do a playtest that I assume will include the following:

1. Updated Arcane, Divine, and Primal Spell lists
2. Updated versions of any class exclusive spells they are carving out (vicious mockery, hunter's mark, find steed)
3. Updated versions of the most problematic spells (shield, fireball, simulacrum, polymorph)
4. Updated versions of any horribly bad spells they haven't yet touched (true strike, etc)
5. Any playtest spells that they already did, but are making further changes to

I would expect about 30 spells or so, give or take, to show what they are doing to get magic spells better under control. We've seen some of that (guidance, barkskin, smites) but I think we need more. It's awfully hard to gauge, for example, how bad sorcerous burst is when we still have the gold standard of AoE (fireball) overtuned beyond comprehension.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So which one is the trap: Kensai or Open Hand, or both?

Neither, obviously.

I was referring to the four elements monk.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So which one is the trap: Kensai or Open Hand, or both?

Good reminder though. Kensei is also pretty good. Not the best, needs a better ki to damage ratio in its features, but otherwise is worth taking.

 

[Parmandur]

Neither, obviously.

I was referring to the four elements monk.

Underrated, IMO.

 

[shadowoflameth]

There is maybe one monk subclass that is a trap to use.

Drunken Master makes FoB also disengage and gives a solid reaction ability.

Open Hand gives secondary effects to FoB for no extra cost, and a solid late level ability.

Sun Soul gives increased range, ant-will radiant damage, and some spells at a good ki cost. Even if you never throw a radiant fireball, the level 3 makes it an improvement on not having a subclass.

Astral whatever and dragon guy I don’t care about enough to even reread for a review.

Mercy is just good. Occasional ability that costs more than it should, or does less than it should, mostly on the healing side, but action economy is solid and it’s very fun, and the subclass adds a lot to the character.

Shadow needs better action economy, and bring the teleport at level 3, adding the advantage clause at level 6, but overall it’s still solid.

IMHO
Drunken Master gives a free disengage without the KI point cost. That's good, but the monk really ought to be able to do that anyway. The other abilities of the subclass depend on multiple opponents or are situational. Especially at 17th. Intoxicated Frenzy is weak for the level.

Open Hand gives some extra effects which are good, but that a fighter can do better with Battlemaster Maneuvers and the unarmed Style.

Sun Soul gives ranges Radiant Damage. (not much) d4 but OK. A thrown dagger is ranged too, but it's an OK ability if you need radiant. The other abilities in the subclass are just weak for the level, the Ki points and especially, at 6th Burning Hands is often just useless.

Mercy Making the monk a healer is OK. But do you want to be a healer? If so, this is a decent choice, but they still take Ki points that the monk may quickly run out of. Hands of Harm is good, but if you're using Ki on it and likely for Stunning Strikes, you're going to quickly run out.

 

[Gorck]

Neither, obviously.

I was referring to the four elements monk.

Oops, I meant 4 Elements, not Open Hand (you mentioned that one in your analysis).

 

[Gorck]

What do you think of Cobalt Soul?

 

[tetrasodium]

True, and that helps, but still d4s. The monk makes the Quarterstaff a better choice at low levels. Still doesn't measure up to the damage of the rogue of the same level with one sneak attack/turn even if the monk makes an extra attack.

It doesn't just "help", it's a huge bump because they are making so many attacks with an attribute mod added on & the fist as you note is less optimal than other weapons. What level do rogues get to add a second attribute to their AC or get second attack?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Underrated, IMO.

There’s a reason every single other Spellcasting monk pays 1 ki less to cast their spells. Not to mention the terrible action economy.

IMHO
Drunken Master gives a free disengage without the KI point cost. That's good, but the monk really ought to be able to do that anyway. The other abilities of the subclass depend on multiple opponents or are situational. Especially at 17th. Intoxicated Frenzy is weak for the level.

Fair criticism, but what the monk ought to be doing is irrelevant. They aren’t, unless they’re a drunken master. As for relying on multiple enemies, so what? If there’s only one, then focus on damage or stunning.

Also, you claimed that these subclasses made the character worse than just not having a subclass. Moving the goalposts now to a general discussion of whether they are generally good is a bit…odd.

Open Hand gives some extra effects which are good, but that a fighter can do better with Battlemaster Maneuvers and the unarmed Style.

The fighter can do them less often, and at a higher price. And again, so what? We aren’t talking about fighters.

Sun Soul gives ranges Radiant Damage. (not much) d4 but OK. A thrown dagger is ranged too, but it's an OK ability if you need radiant. The other abilities in the subclass are just weak for the level, the Ki points and especially, at 6th Burning Hands is often just useless.

Being able to make all your attacks that would otherwise be unarmed instead have range and deal a damage that isn’t frequently resisted is more than you’re making it out to be.

Mercy Making the monk a healer is OK. But do you want to be a healer? If so, this is a decent choice, but they still take Ki points that the monk may quickly run out of. Hands of Harm is good, but if you're using Ki on it and likely for Stunning Strikes, you're going to quickly run out.

Nah you can’t talk about how stunning strike isn’t that good and then come back and talk about how you won’t have ki for subclass abilities because stunning strike. Which is it?

If your problem is that the monk burns ki too fast just say that, so we can all discuss the same thing.

Oops, I meant 4 Elements, not Open Hand (you mentioned that one in your analysis).

Ah okay, that makes sense.

What do you think of Cobalt Soul?

Excellent. Good combination of situational and simply good abilities, and really fun.