What do you love about AE? What do you hate? What should I watch out for?

IndyPendant

First Post
My next campaign, which starts in anywhere between 3 and 8 months, will be based on the Arcana Evolved system, and set (probably) in Ruins of Intrigue. I thought I'd check with the good group of gamers here, and delve into your experiences.

The title pretty much says it all. For those of you who have actually played the game, what did you like the most about the system? What did you hate? And are there weaknesses in it that I should watch out for when I'm running it?
 

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What did I like most?

The magic system

What did I hate?

Nothing. There were a few things I disliked such as Exotic Spell being a slightly sub-par feat choice, (but I fixed that in an article on www.diamondthrone.com) or the oathsworn's power level compared to some other PCs. Nothing major. I ran it out of the box and thought it fabulous. AE fixed many minor, problematic things I saw them.

Are there any weaknesses to watch out for?

Define "weakness" please and I can help.

There are things as a DM to be aware of because of the change from standard D&D (standing up from prone does not provoke an AoO comes to mind), but I don't think there are weaknesses.

Glad to hear you're starting a game! Let us know how it goes.
 

I played the AU system for about a year, I don't have AE but figure it is very similar.

We didn't find anything with the mechanics that were outright terrible, and I don't remember creating any new house rules for it. What I did find is that it takes a good effort by the DM to understand and play NPCs of the new races, especially the Mojh and Verrick which are a bit tougher to get down. Same thing goes for some of the classes, like the Runethane and Oathsworn--it requires the DM to understand and use a little different worldview than the typical 3.0 game. So dive into the races and classes and make sure they are part of the game, rather than just an entry into the book.

I ran a game that mixed AU and D&D, magic systems were totally separate, but the world was D&D--the AU classes were aliens. I found the AU spellcasters had a really hard time dealing with ability score damage used in D&D, through spells and poison, since AU doesn't supply early restore spells, so if you mix and match beware of overclassing your PCs this way.
 

What did I like most?

The magic is handled. It is quite unique.

What did I hate?

Nothing. The set can stands perfectly on its own two feet without the implied setting. Also, the setting itself is quite unique and can be used in any number of ways. The races are totally kick arse and the trait and feat system is another one of my favorites.

Are there any weaknesses to watch out for?

None that I can think of.
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Keep us updated on your game, the more we hear from others about their games, that better as a whole can all games improve.
 

The faen!! Seriously. Faen are awesome, especially once you turn into a spryte. :D

I'm not a huge fan of monstrous races but the races in AE are definitely cool, especially given the fact that you can take levels in the races themselves.

AE is all about options. Every class has a TON. I really like the fact that two people playing the same exact class could have significantly different characters. There is also very little need for prestige classes or even multiclassing.

All these options can be daunting to a new player though, especially if you are starting at a higher level. For those not very familiar with AE, I recommend starting out at a low level so everyone can learn what their characters can do.

The races, classes, magic system, etc also lend itself to a specific campaign style. It's not necessarily high-magic but it's definitely a whole lot of magic. While not every class casts spells, every class has some kind of magical ability.
 

I'm running an AU/AE game right now, and the PCs are still at 1st level. The parts I like are the assumptive twists that characters are given; the akashic is not a rogue by default, but could easily be one. You can make a good archer, but you have several paths to do it.

The racial levels are a neat concept for players who are dissatisfied with ability scores, and I encourage all players to research them.

The magic system is the closest you can come to a magic-point system, while still using the D&D "slots."

The addition of the ritual warrior and combat rites are really fun for a player who wants both the staying power of a front-line fighter, but likes the "little bursts of power" of a mage or who likes a bit of resource management with their fighters.

Truenames and ceremonies! Great stuff to emphasize! Alignments and religions taking on a whole different slant!


The biggest downside to me, though, is the tough time beginning magisters will have of it. No magic missiles, no obvious creature control or crowd control spells of first or 0th level, this means that they'll even have a harder time than 1st level wizards! (Especially since Magister 1's are only proficient with staves.)

But we're enjoying it so far, and it's great for groups who still want D&D, but want something a bit different from it.
 

Having played an AU game for close to a year, I concur with about everything that has been said above.

Magic is great, races are full of flavor and classes have many options available for them to choose. Sure, the majisters are vulnerable at 1st level, but the rewards they gain very quickly are great fun.

I would just like to add a few points that might help in the future ...
-Because of the flexability, power and scope of the magic system I highly reccomend that you (as the GM) master it.
-As you are playing in DT, please get to know the Ceremonial feats (and their function & power) and use them to enhance the RP of the setting. I didnt do that in my game and I really missed out on a unique aspect of the setting & rules
-you can find lots of great idea's and help on Monte's site and at DiamondThrone dot com.
 

I've not played AE, so I'm not sure how much my opinion will count here, but here's some of my thoughts.

The races don't really capture my attention all that much, but they aren't bad. The faen are cool. The racial levels are definitely cool, and a neat twist. The only weird thing is that you have the giant, giant racial levels, then a giant paragon prestige class. *shrugs*

The classes are fantastic. Here's where AE really shines. I like how some of them are really modular (i.e. champion, totem warrior, witch). On top of that, AE has a section showing some archetypes and how each class can be used in different ways. I feel that these classes have more flavor than some of their D&D counterparts (i.e. the magister). I'm not too familiar with the combat rites, but it looks like a neat concept.

As mentioned above, magic is really neat in this system. Spell templates rock. I'm also fond of the spells readied mechanic for classes - so much so that I may adopt it some for my own Dragonlance game.

I also like Monte's approach to epic levels by having classes go up to level 25.

The art is fantastic. It's a beautiful book.


I will forewarn people, though, that this is more of an advanced rulebook - not for beginners. One's mileage may vary depending on how rules-intensive you want things.

Also, even though Monte tries some new takes on roles and does fairly well, some seem like a variant of the PHB classes (i.e. magister/wizard, greenbond/druid).

Anyway, that's my take. It's a fantastic book, and a must-have for the serious d20 gamer.
 

Henry said:
The biggest downside to me, though, is the tough time beginning magisters will have of it. No magic missiles, no obvious creature control or crowd control spells of first or 0th level, this means that they'll even have a harder time than 1st level wizards! (Especially since Magister 1's are only proficient with staves.)

But we're enjoying it so far, and it's great for groups who still want D&D, but want something a bit different from it.

No obvious crowd control measures yes. But, if you're looking to damage and threaten off a few people, a magister can dish out a lot with a templated (especially fire-templated) fireburst. Since it is an area spell, I've found it to be a very effective deterrent. Admittedly muddy ground (level 2 simple) is much more effective for non-violent means.
 

AU/AE primary spellcasters are kinda weak at low levels compared to other characters; they have minimal proficiencies and BAB, and their main offensive or defensive spells and abilities are rather pathetic until at least the lower-middle levels. You'll find a low-level magister, witch, greenbond, or runethane having a hell of a time even trying to hit an enemy in battle, because most of their offensive spells require a normal ranged attack roll, or in some cases a normal melee attack roll, and much less often, a melee or ranged touch attack. No Magic Missiles, Burning Hands, Rays of Frost, or the like, not even Shocking Grasps or Chill Touches to rely on. A low-level spellcaster would do well to invest in a feat to gain Fireburst (a complex 1st-level spell, the closest thing AU/AE has to Burning Hands) and then Earth Burst (a complex 2nd-level spell, resembles Fireball) if they want to have any chance of being useful in combat before finally gaining 3rd-level or higher spells. Otherwise, they'll need either high Strength or high Dexterity, because most other low-level attack spells require attack rolls, and most of them are normal rather than touch attack rolls.

I'd recommend having low-level casters invest in one or two proficiency feats, because a good martial or exotic weapon would help them defend themselves much better than any low-level spell would. A longbow or the like if they're fragile, a greatsword or the like if they have good Con and at least decent Str. Some mid-level and high-level spells also give some significant combat bonuses, so a spellcaster focusing on melee or ranged weaponry could be viable. Most of the time, I think, you'll be preparing utility spells like Acrobatics, Object Loresight, Safe Fall, and Charm, so relying on decent physical ability scores and weaponry may be a good thing. Mind Witches I find to be rather weak and lame, their witchery abilities aren't as useful or effective as those of other Witches (not to mention that several of the Mind Witch's abilities can be more or less duplicated by low-level spells), a real let-down for me. There isn't much in the way of good, low-level crowd control or mind-influencing spells, either. Low-level illusions are highly restrictive and more clearly defined than in the D&D Player's Handbook, and there's very little in the way of low-level charms and compulsions and such (the 1st-level spells Charm and Directed Charm just give bonuses to Charisma-based checks for social interaction, pretty much).

Be aware that AU/AE characters are not going to be healing as rapidly as in D&D; don't expect them to survive through multiple battles in a day. One or two weak battles, sure, but give 'em a single tough or mildly tough battle and they probably won't be able to survive much more in the same day. Not as much of a problem at higher levels, where magisters and greenbonds will finally have access to some good healing spells, and greenbonds will be able to heal a goodly amount of damage through their other class abilities. Champions of Life suck at healing though, regardless of level. Other classes have to spend feats to get any decent healing spells (though some sub-par healing spells are available as Simple spells).

The races don't really grab me, especially with so little info on them initially, and such simple stats; only Faen have any kind of interesting racial features, the rest are essentially a collection of skill bonuses with one or two ability score adjustments tacked on (and I don't even see the reason behind some of them; i.e. why the heck do Litorians gain a Dex bonus instead of Str, when they really look so much burlier and stronger than humans?). Verrik seem neat at first glance, but really their racial traits are pretty pathetic. Their minor psionic magic is of miniscule usefulness, their access to complex psionic spells when they would otherwise gain only simple psionic spells is a joke (there are hardly any spells with the psionic descriptor, and they're extremely limited in usefulness, plus most of them are already either simple or exotic), and their ability score adjustments aren't very useful in AU/AE (they're be better in D&D with monks, clerics, druids, and rangers; as it stands, they're mildly helpful adjustments for witches and some greenbonds, while making Verrik less capable as mage blades and champions).

I'm also rather disappointed with the extremely limited skill points and class skills of many AU/AE classes; at least in D&D, most classes with poor skill selection at least have a variety of spells and abilities that can compensate and keep the characters from being one-dimensional in their non-combat capacities. Mage Blades, while cool, are shackled by their Charisma casting stat (which is also important to their other class abilities), such that their skill points suck and their skill selection is horribly limited (think 3.0 Fighter + 3.0 Sorcerer skill lists). With their slower gain of spell slots, they can't compensate very well with spells when it comes to anything other than fighting, and they don't even fight as well as a Fighter (though they have at least a little versatility with their spells, and can manage a good but short-lived offense or defense). Far too many AU/AE classes are extremely limited in skills, and few of them have anything to compensate for this outside of combat.

Reading the anthology "Children of the Rune" was a good insight into the races and the Lands of the Diamond Throne, but didn't really detail many of the races or places very significantly (i.e. only a bit of insight into Litorian and Sibeccai cultures and mindsets, and Verrik only got a little insight into their mindset, but not their culture). The book focuses more on Humans, Giants, and Faen, though it has at least a bit on Mojh and the rest. It's a good book, but I shouldn't need it to understand the races and classes of AU/AE decently. Then again, I find it hard to believe some of the stuff the characters in the novel did, considering how incredibly limited the skills and abilities of their classes are in AU/AE (a mage blade prowling around almost completely unseen, without invisibility magic? yeah, right).
 

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