What do you think about Monte's new PHB Racial Levels?

[buzz]

Nicely done, overall. But I won't use it until there are racial levels for Goblins, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, Orcs, Gnolls and Kobolds too - at the least

You know, the PDF does mention half-orcs taking levels of orc... tough I don't know of any product that has an orc level progression. It's not in the back of Savage Species, at least.

 

[buzz]

I personally don't find any use for them at all. Perhaps it's my training as a biochemist, but a human is a human is a human. Any variation within the species is covered by ability scores, skills, feats, and class abilities.

Classes are to d20 what character points are to HERO, BESM, or GURPS. They're just the currency players use to purchase development for their PCs. Racials levels provide a way to develop a PC as a quintessential member of their race, the same way that taking levels of fighter develop them as competent combatants. If the end result is a character that I find interesting to play or fits my conception, I don't really care how it is I get there.

I just think this idea is fraught with possibility. Options, not restrictions!

 

[Holy Bovine]

I like them.

The one thing I wish we had more of in d20/D&D were more 3 level "classes" like this. Instead of blowing up everything into a full PrC its nice to have just a few specializations to inidcate the character is growing closer to his roots or whatever (and getting cool powers to boot!)

Absolutely. I would love to see more companies bringing out 3 and 5 level 'prestige classes'. Many of the current crop in the various classbooks really don't need to be full-on 10 level PrCs. Heck i would even say something like the Arcane Archer from the DMG would be better as a 5 level PrC.

 

[reapersaurus]

Is this right?

So I take my first level as a human Paladin.
I get one extra skill point, and an extra feat, as well as Pal1 benefits.
Then at 2nd level, I can choose to take my first level in human, gaining 4 skill points, d8, +0 BAB, +2 WILL save, and my choice of class skill.

Then if I continue as a human, levels 3 and 4 give me +2 BAB, +1/+1/+1 saves, 2d8, one feat, and +2 to any stat.

THEN at level 5 I take my second level of Paladin? If so, that's incredibly lame.

How is this system balanced for anyone other than a wizard/sorcerer/cleric?

 

[Gez]

I find it pretty amusing that several people don't get the basic idea behind these rules, even though they aren't much different from the idea in monster manual: advance creatures either by class or racial 'class'. Whoopti-friggin-doo

Except that the racial class for humans, elves, gnomes and co. is "Humanoid".

Besides, I find it really übersilly that elves have d8 and gnomes d6.

 

[Staffan]

Giants get +2 Str, +2 Wis, +2 Con, a d10 and size Large by the end of their progression.

Elves get Weapon Focus, Elfsight, a bump to resistance and a +2 Int by 3rd level.

On the other hand, core races are a bit more powerful in general than AU races. Compare:

• +2 Dex, -2 Con
• Immunity to sleep, +2 saves vs. enchantment spells
• Low-light vision
• Free proficiency in bows, longsword and rapier
• +2 Listen, Search and Spot.
• Auto-detection of secret doors.

to:

• +2 Str, -2 Dex
• Creature Type: Giant (note: AU spells are changed so that being a non-humanoid is no longer protection against many low-level spells).
• +2 Diplomacy, Sense Motive, and Craft.

No low-light vision, no free weapon proficiencies, no spell immunities. Just a balanced stat modifier and a few skill bonuses. Essentially, being able to take racial levels *is* the main racial ability of the AU races.

 

[LightPhoenix]

Racials levels provide a way to develop a PC as a quintessential member of their race, the same way that taking levels of fighter develop them as competent combatants.

The phrase "quintessential member of their race" makes no sense to me. Again, perhaps it's just the training I've received so far in life, but the variance physically between members of a race is covered by abilities. Variance culturally can be covered by racial abilities. No need, IMO, for levels. Additionally, smoe of the abilities allow for better vision and such - abilities that are covered very aptly, IMO, by feats. Same as Lightning Reflexes. I just don't see the point of making all of that into levels.

I also have to disagree with the second half of the sentence. Learning to fight is a skill that can be taught and learned. Learning to be "more elven", for example, is something that isn't. If these classes were based on cultural abilities then I might be more inclined to agree, but they're not, IMO.

If the end result is a character that I find interesting to play or fits my conception, I don't really care how it is I get there.

I agree, and I'm certainly not coming over to your house to stop you.

Unless you live in Hawaii, but that's a whole other story...

 

[garyh]

Re: Is this right?

So I take my first level as a human Paladin.
I get one extra skill point, and an extra feat, as well as Pal1 benefits.
Then at 2nd level, I can choose to take my first level in human, gaining 4 skill points, d8, +0 BAB, +2 WILL save, and my choice of class skill.

Then if I continue as a human, levels 3 and 4 give me +2 BAB, +1/+1/+1 saves, 2d8, one feat, and +2 to any stat.

THEN at level 5 I take my second level of Paladin? If so, that's incredibly lame.

How is this system balanced for anyone other than a wizard/sorcerer/cleric?

I quote: Humans can take up to three levels of "human" at any time. Not all humans, however, take racial levels (or all three of them)."

Just because your DM allows it, doesn't mean you have to take them. I could see how human levels could work well with a paladin, but it's your character hypothetical PC we're talking about. You don't like them, don' take them.

Personally, I think the big issue with PHB race racial levels is the racial standard is front-loaded. Seriously, as Staffan said, PHB races are designed to get all their goodies up front, whereas the base races in AU were design with Racial Levels in mind.

 

[TwoSix]

Re: Is this right?

So I take my first level as a human Paladin.
I get one extra skill point, and an extra feat, as well as Pal1 benefits.
Then at 2nd level, I can choose to take my first level in human, gaining 4 skill points, d8, +0 BAB, +2 WILL save, and my choice of class skill.

Then if I continue as a human, levels 3 and 4 give me +2 BAB, +1/+1/+1 saves, 2d8, one feat, and +2 to any stat.

THEN at level 5 I take my second level of Paladin? If so, that's incredibly lame.

How is this system balanced for anyone other than a wizard/sorcerer/cleric?

If anything, it's balanced more for non-spellcasters. After all, taking one level in human costs you a spellcasting level. Human levels work great for fighters and rogues, which I personally view as the two most stereotypical human classes (due to versatility and customizability). Also, a Human3/Paladin2 is certainly competitive with a Paladin5. The human levels will cause slightly less combat ability, no spells yet, and laying on hands and smite being not as developed. But the human levels give you more skill points, a stat bonus, and an extra feat. That seems a fair trade off to me.

On the other hand, if you're going to take one level of human as a spellcaster, you might as well take all 3. It's certainly viable for spellcasters, but not a no-brainer. Shouldn't that be the litmus test for any variant class?

 

[HammerFist]

It's interesting, I kinda like it, but I don't think I'd ever take the levels.

It does need a little work, though, Elves should be a lot easier to knock out, and Gnomes should be tougher.