What do you want? I'll tell you something -

[thedungeondelver]

Well, you more or less implied that it will come out in 5 or 6 years.

OH. Oh oh oh. Okay. I gotcha. I was just sort of throwing that out there. Say six or seven then. Eight on the outside.

That said, I agree with your post. I like different editions and games, but my favorite remains AD&D.Never had much trouble in playing it, even it it has been out of print for a long time... 2 PBEM just begun and it's likely that I will restart my FtF group in December. If that happens, we'll also play TOEE.

Well thank you. And remember, when it comes to THE TEMPLE OF ELEMENTAL EVIL? If you're DMing it...stick it in up to the hilt and break it off!

 

[TheGM]

Well said my friend.

I have had this exact conversation with my eldest son - 21 years old - who used to hang out here, and was all offended when the site became more 3E hostile. Duh. It was pre-3E hostile before, what did he expect? After many years hanging out here, he moved along, and is doing his own thing.

Unfortunately for 3E, you don't have some of the great resources (cough DF cough) that other editions do, because they're dead-set on proving that ENWorld is not the only place that has hostility issues.

Here's hoping other solutions turn up that suit those players. I never liked 3E (went to C&C because it had most of the changes I wanted in 3E and none of the extras), but there are a lot of players playing it, want 'em to find a home as cool and enjoyable as that other site is for those of us who skipped 3.

Like you say though, their game is being carried on at least. Ours we can't buy new copies of at any price (put 1E on the market today, and I'll tell you what game I'm playing tomorrow).

Again, well said.
Don.

PS: To the numbers nit-picker... Read the gist of the article, the numbers were sheerly supplementary to the point of the post - it would have lived without them, so don't sidetrack the conversation with inconsequentials.

 

[thedungeondelver]

I have seen much truthiness in this. Some might care, but most gamers want a fun game, above all. If Risus (which is about 1 step above "let's pretend") can entertain new players, so can every version of D&D.

Except 4th edition.







(see this is where we cue the Yakkety Sax music from The Benny Hill Show and y'all are all chasin' me across the lawn as the credits roll...)

 

[Dragon Snack]

With all due respect, telling 3.x supporters to relax and play what we want sounds like you're telling us to shut up and go away...

Message boards are for discussion, why try to stifle people's opinions (provided they are reasonably presented)? While some of us may overstep the bounds, you can't deny there is plenty of bile from the pro-4.0 group as well. Do you have a similar thread chastising them?

I also think you miss the fact that not all of us even want "support" (as you define it, I would like some of the promised errata that never materialized*). Heck, I didn't buy much of what WotC put out the last couple of years anyway (RHoD and Races of Dragon were the last books I bought), I didn't like where they were going even then. We are not monolithic, please don't treat us as such.

So as much as I would like to agree with you (and it actually IS what I do in "Real Life" - and yet I was berated at a LGS last week for still playing 3.5 and Savage Worlds) and feel the peer pressure to post kudos, if we can't express our opinions on the message boards why would we come here?

For those of you wishing we would leave, be careful what you wish for. Since polls here seem to show 40% of us would be gone, how many well known posters and Community Supporters would that take away? Could the site actually survive if all the pro-3.x people turned their backs on it?

So while you can play what you want with your home group, we are here on ENWorld to discuss a game - and since 4.0 is the 'new shiny', that's what we have to discuss. If you don't like how we say something, use the "Ignore" or "Report Post" function. If you don't like what we are saying, please don't tell us to go away...




*Even if I can house rule major discrepancies, it's the close cases that cause more problems.

(stops chasing Delver to gawk at the girl behind the fruit stand...)

 

[Simon Atavax]

With all due respect, telling 3.x supporters to relax and play what we want sounds like you're telling us to shut up and go away...

DragonSnack, this seems like the essence of your post; for what it's worth, I didn't take Delver's OP that way. It seemed more like an encouragement for those of us who are not into "teh new shiny," a call to arms, if you will, that we don't have to be discouraged or disillusioned with our favorite edition (whatever it may be) being out of print.

Just my $0.02.

 

[billd91]

Some players won't play anything other than thier "pet" edition because they have spent a lot of time learning to crack the system and build the most abusable collections of abilities masquerading as characters that the world has seen. Third edition seems to be a favorite with these types because the exacting rules and build mechanics are well suited to rules lawyering. These same people will also balk at campaigns using core rules only calling them "boring" without ever playing a session because thier favorite broken build wouldn't be available.

Do any of these players want to run thier favorite system? If not then you might be better off finding better players.

There are many other reasons why the mechanics matter to some people and not just because they've cracked the game, so to speak.

It might just be the only game they really know. I've known plenty of people who have only played one RPG system in their lives and aren't particularly interested in learning another.

People might also not want to play a particular game because they actively dislike the mechanics of the game. I dare say there are a lot of people who dislike RoleMaster because of all of its fiddly tables and critical hits. There are plenty of people who have gone for 4e because they feel it fixes issues they had with high-level play and prep.

The game system can matter to some people and not just because they've learned the exploits of one of them.

 

[thedungeondelver]

Back off, DragonSnack. I'm not telling anybody to shut up and go away. One, if anything, I'm saying "pipe up and keep communicating - about how to work [EDITION OF CHOICE]". Two, this isn't my forum. Come over to thedelversdungeon forums and post about 3e and I'll be happy to tell you to shut up and go away

What I'm saying is, the ship has sailed but you don't have to sink. If original DUNGEONS & DRAGONS (a not exactly support-heavy edition even when it was brand spanking new) has players, you guys can too. I'm saying, buck up, the edition doesn't die until NOBODY plays it any more.

 

[ExploderWizard]

There are many other reasons why the mechanics matter to some people and not just because they've cracked the game, so to speak.

It might just be the only game they really know. I've known plenty of people who have only played one RPG system in their lives and aren't particularly interested in learning another.

People might also not want to play a particular game because they actively dislike the mechanics of the game. I dare say there are a lot of people who dislike RoleMaster because of all of its fiddly tables and critical hits. There are plenty of people who have gone for 4e because they feel it fixes issues they had with high-level play and prep.

The game system can matter to some people and not just because they've learned the exploits of one of them.

I know that there are many reasons. I was responding specifically to the way the behavior of that bunch of players was coming across. I guess that I am not accustomed to putting up with such rudeness from those I game with. I run whatever I feel like. When a buddy wants to run something, I play it. I am in a 4E game right now. I'm not wild about the system and I won't run it, but I can enjoy playing with my friends no matter what rules we use. I wonder if that is rare in the gaming community? Do we game with friends and enjoy our evening no matter what we play or do we find a bunch of people that play our version of whatever and play with them only as long as they use the system we support? I am in the former group. I like my friends more than any edition.

 

[Silent Cartographer]

As a fan of all editions of D&D (including 4th, ROCK! ), I agree with the Original Post. I have far more 1E & 2E pdf books now than I ever owned in hardcopy back in the day.

 

[Silent Cartographer]

To add to what I said before:

In regards to the OP, the only missing from your post was the fact that until recently, 3E D&D was the most supported RPG on the planet, and at this point in time it is not. Given the timing of things, and given that there is value in your game being the most supported RPG on the planet, there is a sense of loss involved.

I would argue that it still is the best supported RPG on the planet, at least for the time being. That may fade over time (it will be a long time indeed for 4E to be better supported than 3.x), but continued OGL support slows that fading even further.