What DON'T you like about 1E AD&D?

[jeffh]

why this:
d6 avg damage of 3.5 x6

where did the 3.5 come?

Knowing how to do math?

 

[Fifth Element]

Knowing how to do math?

Or, to provide a helpful response, the average of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 is 3.5.

 

[jeffh]

My biggest peeves:

* Nonsensical saving throw categories
* Poor explanations at almost every turn
* Excessive restrictions on nonhuman classes and levels, which were also different for PCs than NPCs
* XP for money
* Rules for some topics (e.g. initiative, listening at doors) spread out around 2-4 different places, which didn't say the same thing (couldn't even tell, in some cases, whether they conflicted or merely each gave part of the picture)
* Pathetically weak thieves and mid- to high-level fighters
* Everything about the Assassin class

 

[Valiant]

- Inconsistent mechanics. Some things roll high to succeed, others low. Some things go up, others go down. Some addressed by rules, others by tables.

- Mechanics that don't work, or work badly (grappling).

- Psionics.

Setting, flavor, etc I love. 3E Rules, 1E flavor is definitely my thing. 1E was great for its time, but there is/was definitely room for improvement.

I see these "inconsistent mechanics" as AD&Ds greatest strength (and I'm certain Gygax did as well, don't think for a second he couldn't have made them more simplistic or consistant...he chose not to). Inconsistancy in what keeps the player uncertain and thus excited and involved in the game. It emulates reality more closely (for instance, do you know what your exact chance would be to jump over a 8' stream being chased by a pack of wolves) then a consistant system like 3E...and emulating reality is the name of the game in any RPG. Once it doesn't seem real, whats the point.

PS, another important thing to remember about these confusing rules is that it allowed the players to sit back and just play, rolling dice now and then rather then trying to keep track of the rules (that job was the DMs). The rules were so difficult to understand (esp. for newbies) it really kept the power and mechanics in the hands of the DM (freeing up the player to do more important things, like go adventuring). 3E puts the power in the hands of the players (putting the rules out front as they do, unlike 1E with the DMG).

 

[Fifth Element]

...and emulating reality is the name of the game in any RPG. Once it doesn't seem real, whats the point.

Say what now? The point of D&D is to do things that are impossible in real life, not to emulate things in real life. Casting fireball, for instance.

 

[Pants]

I see these "inconsistent mechanics" as AD&Ds greatest strength (and I'm certain Gygax did as well, don't think for a second he couldn't have made them more simplistic or consistant...he chose not to). Inconsistancy in what keeps the player uncertain and thus excited and involved in the game.

Not to drive this off topic, but... shouldn't the... uh WORLD and SETTING that the players are playing in keep them excited and involved as opposed to a bunch of inconsistent, clashing subsystems?

It emulates reality more closely (for instance, do you know what your exact chance would be to jump over a 8' stream being chased by a pack of wolves) then a consistant system like 3E...and emulating reality is the name of the game in any RPG.

There's a reason we don't know the exact chance for that. This is reality and that is a game. Should a game seek to emulate reality at the cost of fun and, in some cases, ease of use? I'm thinking... no

Once it doesn't seem real, whats the point.

It's a game of dragons, wizards, demons, nonsensical ruins, hundreds of expansive dungeons littering every 10 square miles and this is a problem?

PS, another important thing to remember about these confusing rules is that it allowed the players to sit back and just play, rolling dice now and then rather then trying to keep track of the rules (that job was the DMs). The rules were so difficult to understand (esp. for newbies) it really kept the power and mechanics in the hands of the DM (freeing up the player to do more important things, like go adventuring). 3E puts the power in the hands of the players (putting the rules out front as they do, unlike 1E with the DMG).

See, now I could get behind this, except for the whole depowering players vs empowering DM's. Having anything but a neutral balance between both has the potential to cause all sorts of problems.

 

[Nikosandros]

i know about 1gp=1xp, but its not a "1ed" thing, as we had it earlier

I'm not sure what you mean by that... the rule is the manual and is not listed as optional. It is a 1ed thing.

 

[Lorthanoth]

I doubt very much the systems were designed to emulate reality, more likely they were a compilation of different rules and ideas from years of play that were never cohesive. It wasn't designed to be confusing... it was just confusing.

 

[rossik]

Knowing how to do math?

no need to be rude or sarcastic, pal

I'm not sure what you mean by that... the rule is the manual and is not listed as optional. It is a 1ed thing.

by that i meant that its not a rule only for 1ed, so, im my point of view, it was not a 1ed thing.

but another poster said that "if its on 1ed book, its a 1ed thing"
so, not wanting to fight for such a little thing, let it go , no problem

 

[Valiant]

Say what now? The point of D&D is to do things that are impossible in real life, not to emulate things in real life. Casting fireball, for instance.

Sure, doing cool stuff in a fantasy setting is the point. But its also to make that activity feel more real (and less like a game) the inconsistant nature of what the player has to role (which is up to the DM) helps, it adds to the "playing make believe" aspect of the game. Think about it, that inconsistancy (sometimes having to role higher, sometimes lower, sometimes with a d100 sometimes a d20 etc.) makes it difficult for the player to see patterns of chance. 3Es very consistant system of knowing precisely what to role for any possible activity, and the players ability to calculate what that exact base chance will be (climbing a rope, jumping a 10' stream) not only results in its famous video game "push button" feel (want to jump role this, climb role that etc.) but also takes away from the immersion experiance. Its no longer about doing cool stuff and exploring, its about calculating your odds by stacking numbers. I'm sure some prefer this experiance to 1Es more unpredictable fluid nature, and to each their own.