D&D 5E What have you found to be the hardest thing for new players to understand about 5e systems?

Nevvur

Explorer
I would never tell a beginner "you shall not play a wizard until you've first learned how to play something else", it's horrible advice IMO and does a bad service to the game.

Just want to yank this line out and +1 it.

I'll admit to having some paternalistic tendencies when it comes to new players, but it manifests in game play, not character creation. There's something beautiful and pristine about a new player's very first character concept that I don't want to taint.
 

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Tony Vargas

Legend
Why do some people find it so difficult to learn 5e? Anybody that can read should be able to learn how to play this relatively simple game. This must be symptomatic of the difference in culture between 1980 and 2018.
While 5e is not as needlessly complicated as the classic game was, it's still a very complex game compared to actual, popular mainstream games that people are likely to be exposed to prior to jumping into the RPG hobby at the deep, piranha-infested end.

Seriously. As a 10 year old boy I taught myself how to play a much more complicated and less logical system than 5e.
And, having done that decades ago, learning 5e, a game not only less baroque than classic D&D, but still very similar too it in broad ways, can't help but seem very easy. To you - that holds whether you're a long-time player who's been exposed to everything in-between, or a returning one who hadn't played D&D this millennium.

I know I sound like an old man ranting about younger generations...
Yep, you do. Join the club, have a beer. ;P
 

Wulffolk

Explorer
You are of course speaking only of those from your generation who successfully learned the game and persisted in playing it for nearly three decades. The self-selection here is self-evident. Consider how many people in 1980 might have picked up the game and maybe tried to play once or twice, but ran into difficulty understanding it and so dropped it and never looked back. No internet on which ask for help also means no internet on which you could see them asking for help. They'd have been effectively invisible to you. For all you know, the failure rate for learning D&D was ten times higher back then than it is today..

Certainly, my observations were anecdotal, and to some extent were a product of self-selection, but probably less so than you are imagining. As mentioned, with no internet during that time it is hard to make any observation on this subject that is not just conjecture.

What I can attest to were these observations:
1 - In 1980 interest in D&D swept through my suburban community.
2 - Every member of the local Boy Scout troop got hooked (including me).
3 - That troop included nearly 100 boys ranging in age from late elementary school to high school.
4 - We played D&D on every camping trip and not a single person in the troop had trouble learning the game.
5 - Those Boy Scouts introduced dozens of their other friends to the game, and I never heard a single story about "Joey Smith being too stupid to learn D&D."
6 - D&D became so popular that we played at school during recess and even had after school clubs where even non-geeks joined in the fun with little trouble.
7 - Though the game was dominated by teen boys, we did have some girls join in and learn the game without much difficulty. I even ran some games for an exclusively girl group of my sister and her friends.
8 - Every person that had an interest in the game learned to play with relatively little difficulty. I can remember not a single one of those people having a reputation for being system-inept after a couple of sessions.
9 - The only people that did have any problem learning the game were those that weren't really interested in the first place and only tried the game due to peer pressure.
10 - As far as I know, only a small percentage of us that learned the game back then continued their interest in the hobby through their adult years and are still interested decades later. My best guess would be less than 1 in 10, though I have no way of knowing for certain.

My point was that anybody should be able to learn 5e with little trouble if such a large group of average kids could learn old school D&D with none of the resources that are available today. If I had to guess the contributing factors to this learning difficulty I would think that it boils down to an inability to focus on something for more than a couple of minutes without being distracted by phones, in combination with a lack of consideration for wasting the time of other people, as well as a reliance on hand-holding in place of utilizing their own problem-solving ability.

Obviously, there are bright kids today. I am not calling younger generations "stupid". What I mentioned above was just in support of my opinion that any difficulty learning the relatively simple 5e appears to most likely be the result of societal and cultural differences.

However, there are many reasons that the film Idiocracy seems to be more prophetic with each passing year, and has become such a well-known meme. If you haven't seen it check it out. It may seem like a dumb comedy at first, but there is a certain genius to it, especially the family tree sequence.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
What I can attest to were these observations:
1 - In 1980 interest in D&D swept through my suburban community."
6 - D&D became so popular that we played at school during recess and even had after school clubs where even non-geeks joined in the fun with little trouble.
7 - Though the game was dominated by teen boys, we did have some girls join in and learn the game without much difficulty. I even ran some games for an exclusively girl group of my sister and her friends.
10 - As far as I know, only a small percentage of us that learned the game back then continued their interest in the hobby through their adult years and are still interested decades later. My best guess would be less than 1 in 10, though I have no way of knowing for certain.
I can affirm that my experience c1980 was similar on these points.

These, not so much:
2 - Every member of the local Boy Scout troop got hooked (including me).
3 - That troop included nearly 100 boys ranging in age from late elementary school to high school.
4 - We played D&D on every camping trip and not a single person in the troop had trouble learning the game.
5 - Those Boy Scouts introduced dozens of their other friends to the game, and I never heard a single story about "Joey Smith being too stupid to learn D&D.
8 - Every person that had an interest in the game learned to play with relatively little difficulty. I can remember not a single one of those people having a reputation for being system-inept after a couple of sessions.
Wasn't a boy scout, but at my depressing middle school, it was mostly the nerdier kids who got into it. Plenty of kids who tried it didn't get it and didn't try again. My little circle of friends played D&D all summer, with only the DM really reading the basic book. It was fun, but he'd gotten /everything/ completely wrong. Maybe in reaction to that, I read through the core AD&D books obsessively, and, probably due to that, noticed that very few folks I played with had all the rules 'right' (for one thing, the rules didn't get themselves right, there were outright contradictions!) either DMs had substantially altered them, or had just ignored swaths of 'em, and players who didn't game with a lot of different DMs just assumed the variants they were used to were the whole rule set.

9 - The only people that did have any problem learning the game were those that weren't really interested in the first place and only tried the game due to peer pressure.
So nobody had a problem, but if they did, it's because they weren't really into it? IDK, that's got a wiff of No True Scottsman about it. Just as easily, couldn't people have not gotten into it because it was so complicated & intimidating? ;)

My point was that anybody should be able to learn 5e with little trouble if such a large group of average kids could learn old school D&D with none of the resources that are available today. If I had to guess the contributing factors to this learning difficulty I would think that it boils down to an inability to focus on something for more than a couple of minutes without being distracted by phones, in combination with a lack of consideration for wasting the time of other people, as well as a reliance on hand-holding in place of utilizing their own problem-solving ability.
Welcome to being a grumpy old man. ;) When I was a teenager, the older generations were convinced my generation was doomed because we didn't go outside to play, and, later, that our attention spans had been degraded to nothing by MTV.

Now, those Millennials, WTF's wrong with those kids? ;|
 

Wulffolk

Explorer
Welcome to being a grumpy old man. ;) When I was a teenager, the older generations were convinced my generation was doomed because we didn't go outside to play, and, later, that our attention spans had been degraded to nothing by MTV.

Now, those Millennials, WTF's wrong with those kids? ;|

Funny thing is, I have no kids of my own (as far as I know), so I can mock younger generations without being responsible for genetically contributing to the problem. I just have to make sure I go out in a blaze of glory before needing to rely on my non-existent kids to take care of me when I am elderly.
 

Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
Welcome to being a grumpy old man. ;) When I was a teenager, the older generations were convinced my generation was doomed because we didn't go outside to play, and, later, that our attention spans had been degraded to nothing by MTV.

Now, those Millennials, WTF's wrong with those kids? ;|

What's MTV, sir? :p
 


Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
I remember having to repeatedly mention that they can do "ONE ACTION AT A TIME". that is, one move, then one standard. Otherwise, new players say things like: "I flip over the goblyn, climb the tree and backstab the orc."

anyone else seen this?

Uh...but you CAN flip over the goblin, climb the tree, and backstab the orc! You do not need to do just one move and then one standard in 5e. You can break up your move as you see fit. So you can do some movement, then attack, then do some more movement. You can even move some, attack, move some more, attack again (if you have a second attack) and then finish moving some more.

So for your scenario you could spend 10 feet to get to where the goblin is, jump over the goblin as 10 more feet of movement using an athletics or acrobatics roll, climb the tree at 10 feet of movement, and then backstab the orc (who I guess is in the tree?). Which...was just a movement and then an attack action anyway now that I look at your scenario.

Here are the specific rules, from the PHB:

Breaking Up Your Move
You can break up your Movement on your turn, using some of your speed before and after your action. For example, if you have a speed of 30 feet, you can move 10 feet, take your action, and then move 20 feet.

Moving between Attacks
If you take an action that includes more than one weapon attack, you can break up your Movement even further by moving between those attacks. For example, a Fighter who can make two attacks with the Extra Attack feature and who has a speed of 25 feet could move 10 feet, make an attack, move 15 feet, and then attack again.

Movement and Position

Your Movement can include Jumping, climbing, and swimming. These different modes of Movement can be combined with walking, or they can constitute your entire move. However you’re moving, you deduct the distance of each part of your move from your speed until it is used up or until you are done moving.
 
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MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
I played Red Box D&D and 1st edition AD&D, and a few other RPGs from the 80s, then went without playing any TTRPGs until about 3 years ago when I started a 5e game.

In my experience, most people can pick up the basic mechanics quickly. Spells can be an issue and I have spell cards to lend players to avoid time wasted flipping pages.

Having cards or some other physical representation of spell points helps, as does having character sheets with checkboxes to tick off spell slots used. I'll often create the characters in Herolab and print them out, since I find the Herolab character sheet, plus the ability to print out short summaries of spells and powers to be far more convenient than the official character sheet.

Some younger players dislike spell slots and would rather have spell points, mana, etc. Personally, I think having spell points would make it take even longer to make casting decisions as you calculate your magic-juice resources. I find 5e's spell slots plus cantrips system to work very well.

As for younger generations being too distracted or too dumb to learn D&D, that's just silly. For one, as I remember it, throughout the 80s we often just made things up and mostly learned the rules through arguments over them. And 1e was mostly tables anyway. "Learning the rules" was more about learning where the table you needed was. My books had lots of stick-on tabs and I remember that in addition to text-heavy DM screens crammed with charts, there were also rules workflows. Sure, some players and DMs memorized most of the rules, but I think very few had everything in their heads. Besides, today's generation has higher IQ than my generation. Each generation's IQ has increased over the prior generations since. A person in 2012 had a higher IQ than 95% of the population in 1900. Google the "Flynn Effect".

With a patient DM and perhaps some aids such as spell cards, game pieces representing spell points, etc., anyone can pick up the game quickly.

Most of the complaints that I agree with have little to do with the game being hard or people being stupid, but more about table etiquette and DM expectations.
 

Certainly, my observations were anecdotal, and to some extent were a product of self-selection, but probably less so than you are imagining. As mentioned, with no internet during that time it is hard to make any observation on this subject that is not just conjecture.
And that admission ought to have been the end of the conversation.

At the very least, if you absolutely had to forge on, you probably should not have complained about poor problem-solving ability, after brushing under the rug the parts of your own anecdotal evidence that were inconvenient to your position. Or about lack of consideration, in the midst of repeating broad unflattering stereotypes about a group of people rather than showing any interest in understanding them. Or about focus-impairing media addiction, only to cite an 84-minute Hollywood comedy for your model of social evolution.
 
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