D&D 5E What (if anything) do you find "wrong" with 5E?

[SakanaSensei]

I thought I read a dev comment saying this is the case, but just in case I have old man brain, I apologize in advance.

How do people feel about the "intended" starting level being 3?

I wish every class got subclass at level 1, personally. Too many subclasses have a ton of flavor baked in, and at my very narrative driven table my options are start at 3 (getting rid of the draw of a 1-20 campaign), work in some narrative contrivance to have huge downtime between 2 and 3, or just ignore the flavor and say “oh, our fighter has telekinesis now, neat.”

 

[James Gasik]

I wish every class got subclass at level 1, personally. Too many subclasses have a ton of flavor baked in, and at my very narrative driven table my options are start at 3 (getting rid of the draw of a 1-20 campaign), work in some narrative contrivance to have huge downtime between 2 and 3, or just ignore the flavor and say “oh, our fighter has telekinesis now, neat.”

I can agree with that. As I recall, and again, my memory might not be as sharp as I'd like it to be, one developer weighed in saying that level 3 was the intended starting level, but they added lower levels for players who said they wanted more of the "zero to hero" experience in their games.

 

[glass]

Then bluntly, you were as clear as mud.

Since it now appears that we do not disagree in any major way about the sequence of events, clearly neither of us understood what the other was saying initially. Continuing the argument now just so we can bicker about whose fault that was seems pointless. How about we let it drop?

_
glass.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Since it now appears that we do not disagree in any major way about the sequence of events, clearly neither of us understood what the other was saying initially. Continuing the argument now just so we can bicker about whose fault that was seems pointless. How about we let it drop?

_
glass.

Entirely reasonable.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Lack of grit. Generally anyway.

Part of this is due to the ubiquity of cantrips which I otherwise like. Light as a first level spell would not have hurt my feelings.

Things that automatically feed you likewise could charge you more in magic and I would be ok with that as well.

Then we have fewer spells to throw around. I would even be ok if we only got so many firebolts a day. Not a deal breaker but some stuff is easier that I might prefer.

Otherwise? It’s the organization of the book and interference learning. People apply old mechanics and forget limitations that help—and some I am just getting g back to.

Handwaving everything is not ideal. Hand management and spell components (edit only in terms of having a hand for them; I don’t want to count cricket legs) are there as limiting factors. Some say don’t balance with annoyances, but I don’t see it that way.

this plus an easier time interrupting spells instantly improves balance issues some people complain about.

Putting things on easy mode of course creates other consequences

 

[Oofta]

Just realized something else.

The desire to make the game simple for newbie made too basic and backloaded for veterans.

Almost every class with a 3rd lvel subclass has hard baked in features that are simple and require the subclass to expand.

There are few real choices for many classes in the first 2 levels to make it easy for new players. This is where half of the martials/casters issues arises as casters get to choose spells with definite effects.

Maybe it's too basic for you, I still enjoy it. I enjoyed interesting builds in 3.x, but I don't miss it in 5.

If you want more complexity maybe you should try something like level up. I haven't seen a huge broad based desire for it with the people I play with (several of whom i started playingvwith in 3.5). I doubt WOTC will ever have a version with significantly more complexity.

 

[Minigiant]

Maybe it's too basic for you, I still enjoy it. I enjoyed interesting builds in 3.x, but I don't miss it in 5.

If you want more complexity maybe you should try something like level up. I haven't seen a huge broad based desire for it with the people I play with (several of whom i started playingvwith in 3.5). I doubt WOTC will ever have a version with significantly more complexity.

It's not just me.

One of the common complaints of people who switch to PF2, A5e, 4e, 3e,or 2e is that is that 5e is has too many frontload automatic non-decisions and by the time you get to customize your PC to match your vision, it's level 8 and the campaign ended.

5e is very newbie friendly. But like I say before, you can't stay a newb forever. And once people learn 5e, many feel restricted by lack of choices put in there for new players.

I mean, you can't get a feat until level 4.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Maybe it's too basic for you, I still enjoy it. I enjoyed interesting builds in 3.x, but I don't miss it in 5.

If you want more complexity maybe you should try something like level up. I haven't seen a huge broad based desire for it with the people I play with (several of whom i started playingvwith in 3.5). I doubt WOTC will ever have a version with significantly more complexity.

It’s all about what you want.

I found more complexity tends to be fiddly and take away in some ways from the action.

With multiclassing and feats and the addition of lots of races and subclasses I haven’t even imagined most concepts yet.

I think some people must really miss the mini games of combining bonuses. It’s fine but not what I am after.

If the goal here is broad appeal too, I don’t imagine too many neophytes being taken with another thing to stack vs. the overall picture. Old war gamers are probably split on this.

I know it’s dead horse abuse but the accessibility is a major selling point.

 

[tetrasodium]

It’s all about what you want.

I found more complexity tends to be fiddly and take away in some ways from the action.

With multiclassing and feats and the addition of lots of races and subclasses I haven’t even imagined most concepts yet.

I think some people must really miss the mini games of combining bonuses. It’s fine but not what I am after.

If the goal here is broad appeal too, I don’t imagine too many neophytes being taken with another thing to stack vs. the overall picture. Old war gamers are probably split on this.

I know it’s dead horse abuse but the accessibility is a major selling point.

I don't think I've ever heard someone refer to the act of leveling up & filling out their character sheet with the fruit of whatever choices they are allowed to make at the time as "the action"

 

[Rogerd1]

There was some supplements (DM Guild?) that made Feats point buys, based upon tiers I think. This would help with bespoke choice but would require a Chargen overhaul such that it becomes point based.