D&D 5E What (if anything) do you find "wrong" with 5E?

[Eric V]

I think ultimately, a lot of the arguing about the game's mechanics come down to the very basic argument about what D&D is.

Is D&D a gritty, low magic game where an arrow is a serious threat to most people, and magic is rare and little understood?

Is D&D a high magic game of floating castles and dragons, with powerful artifacts and reality warping magic available to players?

Is D&D a simulation, trying to map rules to some vague sense of verisimilitude?

Or is D&D a game, trying to make rules that are fun and allow for epic shenanigans?

The answer is, all of the above.

And I think that might be the source of some peoples' complaints about 5e: That it attempts to be all those things means it doesn't do any one of them super well. Might explain the term I've heard thrown around as "everyone's second favourite edition." (I know it's some peoples' first fav edition, duh).

 

[Vaalingrade]

What's the Paladin, chopped liver?

Yes.

Wait, what? There may not be elves or orcs, but there are ogier and shadowspawn. Magic is not (universally) ritualistic; weaves can be cast in seconds and can be extremely powerful, allowing the caster to obliterate enemies, physically enter dreams, and even have effects backwards through time. And most importantly, it culminates with a battle outside of reality (kinda) between the chief protagonist and the actual god of evil.. WoT is plenty high fantasy.

I made the same mistake. I think WoT in this case is World of Tiers.

 

[Eric V]

Now, if you want to just express your opinion- feel free! If you are engaged in a serious critique of the design decisions, then you have to operate under the same constraints that they do- what is popular?

I think this is key. I think the priority of all the armchair designers here is to make a better game for the people they know that play it (their groups, friends, etc.) They want to make the already-played game better.

I think WotC/Hasbro want to make a popular game. If it's good too, great...but the priority is popularity, economic growth of the game, etc. I don't think that's debatable. So, some of the ideas here might sound iffy on paper, but we know that, given enough time, it would make a game more enjoyable. But if market research shows that the casual player won't spend that requisite amount of time and instead be turned off by the idea, then it's a non-starter.

Designing for popularity (especially the popularity of the masses, as opposed to niche popularity in the pre-5e days) means a very different approach.

 

[glass]

I made the same mistake. I think WoT in this case is World of Tiers.

Yes, you are clearly right. ENworld needs an :embarrassed: smiley.

 

[Eric V]

The Belgariad, the Elenium, The Sword of Truth, and The Codex Alara have pretty powerful magic.

While there's definitely summoning and such...the main heroes of the Belgariad use psionics.

(runs for cover)

 

[Minigiant]

No, it doesn't.

Have you read "70s" fantasy fiction? Or are you just, you know, assuming? Show me Thomas Covenant or Linden Avery ... let alone an Ur-Vile.

Show me Corwin. Show me a Sid.

Show me a class that can embody all of Conan. Go on. Stat him up for me in 5e perfectly since it's so easy. What, the Barbarian class? The one that depends on RAGE as a mechanic?

You start with a fallacy and don't recognize that D&D doesn't allow you to just copy literature or films ... BECAUSE THEY DON'T FOLLOW EXACT RULES (and usually don't follow "zero to hero").

Also? Raistlin? In addition to the fact that he is from the 1980s, you do know that he was created for Dragonlance, right? He is literally a D&D character.

No one asks for perfect. However aspects of some 80s and 70s fantasy get to be strong core parts of D&D race, class, magic, monster, and dungeon design.

Where anything after 1995 has to struggle to get in and if it makes it in, it's hot trash or blind to the inspiration.

I mean nothing about fire benders, demon slayers, kingsguard, witchers, magical girls, and magic shinobi feel like they are out of place in D&D. Especially 5e with it's default heroic fantasy madness.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

No one asks for perfect. However aspects of some 80s and 70s fantasy get to be strong core parts of D&D race, class, magic, monster, and dungeon design.

Where anything after 1995 has to struggle to get in and if it makes it in, it's hot trash or blind to the inspiration.

I mean nothing about fire benders, demon slayers, kingsguard, witchers, magical girls, and magic shinobi feel like they are out of place in D&D. Especially 5e with it's default heroic fantasy madness.

This isn't very hard.

D&D doesn't model any particular fantasy tropes very well that are in literature or movies because (a) different media means that they are different, and (b) it really only models D&D well.

The more it tries and model a specific something - the less it can model anything else. When the system gets "tuned" to a particular inspiration (like AiME or Anime 5e) the less it can handle anything else, including ... D&D.

You cannot have what you want. I feel like you're at a Baskin Robbins, and instead of asking for a flavor, you keep saying, "I want all your flavors together, right now! Why won't you do that for me! Why can't you put all your flavors into a blender so I can drink it down."


There are plenty of systems that will allow you to run what you want (that aren't D&D). There are also a lot of products that you can use to modify D&D to run ... well, parts of what you ask for. There is nothing (and no product I am aware of) that will let you run all fantasy and science fiction from anime, literature, video games, and comic books, from gritty to super heroic, all together at once.


I mean, have ya tried GURPS?

 

[Aldarc]

You cannot have what you want. I feel like you're at a Baskin Robbins, and instead of asking for a flavor, you keep saying, "I want all your flavors together, right now! Why won't you do that for me! Why can't you put all your flavors into a blender so I can drink it down."

"Sir, this is an Arby's."

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

"Sir, this is an Arby's."

Admittedly, I have drank down a lot of their horsey sauce.

It pairs well with gin.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

While there's definitely summoning and such...the main heroes of the Belgariad use psionics.

(runs for cover)

Sounds right for me.