D&D General What it means for a race to end up in the PHB, its has huge significance

[Yaarel]

Completely disagree on the whole "just turn all your traits into innate cantrips" thing, but we've been down that road.

For the Elf, cantrips as traits makes sense.

For other species, less so.

For example, an innately magic Elf "can" have Darkvision if selecting the cantrip.

But Orc exhibits Darkvision as a nocturnal nature trait. Dwarf too exhibits it as a subterranean trait.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

For the Elf, cantrips as traits makes sense.

No, they really don't.

A people noted for being able to innately see in the dark or breath underwater should not have that ability stripped from them simply because they wandered into an antimagic field or got hit by a cast of dispel magic.

 

[Yaarel]

No, they really don't.

A people noted for being able to innately see in the dark or breath underwater should not have that ability stripped from them simply because they wandered into an antimagic field or got hit by a cast of dispel magic.

For the elven cultures who can see in the dark, it is a spell. Elves ARENT known for seeing in the dark! The old school Elf lacked "infravision". For most elven cultures, Darkvision has little or no relationship to the habitat and customs of the elven culture.

[Edit: The 3e Elf lacked Darkvision. Also the 4e Elf lacked it. But 1e Elf had it.]

Elves ARENT known for breathing water. The fact that one culture does is bizarre, replaceable by Triton, and these Elves obviously obtained the ability to breathe water by means of magic. LOL! They didnt hold their breath for millions of years while slowly evolving the ability to breathe water. It is a magic transmutation spell!

Same goes for Avariel wings. Magic.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

For the elven cultures who can see in the dark, it is a spell. Elves ARENT known for seeing in the dark! The old school Elf lacked "infravision". For most elven cultures, Darkvision has little or no relationship to the habitat and customs of the elven culture.

Elves ARENT known for breathing water. The fact that one culture does is bizarre, replaceable by Triton, and these Elves obviously obtained the ability to breathe water by means of magic. LOL! They didnt hold their breath for millions of years while slowly evolving the ability to breathe water. It is a magic transmutation spell!

Same goes for Avariel wings. Magic.

You're right - absolutely no reason a traditionally forest-dwelling civilization might have for needing to see in the dark...

Sarcasm aside, drow (darkvision), sea elves (water breathing), and avariel (wings) should not lose their defining characteristics due to an antagonistic abjurer or a dead magic zone.

 

[Yaarel]

You're right - absolutely no reason a traditionally forest-dwelling civilization might have for needing to see in the dark...

I have been in forests. People can see fine. No need for Darkvision.

drow (darkvision), sea elves (water breathing), and avariel (wings) should not lose their defining characteristics due to an antagonistic abjurer or a dead magic zone.

The elven traditions involving the spells, Darkvision, Water Breathing, and Wings, are necessarily magical. Spells make sense, and if that means vulnerable to antimagic zones that is fine with me. That said.


Spells are a kind of magic. But some magic isnt spells and would endure antimagic, such as dragonbreath would.


However, there are too many too many kinds of Elves in the D&D traditions. Even 5e has already multiplied way too many different kinds of Elves.

For the sake of a single Elf species that can represent EVERY D&D Elf, ever, or approximate enough, let the Elf player pick whatever spells they want. Done.

Likewise, when the DM creates yet an other kind of Elf, let the DM pick whatever spells happen to be popular choices in the custom elven culture. Done.

Elves are innate spellcasters. Acquiring traits via spells is the flavor of the species.

 

[Mistwell]

In 2024, Half Elves are still in the lore, but absent from special mechanics. A Human-Elf ancestry can choose either Human or Elf for the character stats.

It is true that some Half-Elves have been retconned out of existence. But I suspect this has more to do with locations to make certain Human species not-necessarily-evil. For example, one "silver haired" Half-Elf was rewritten explicitly as a Non-Evil Drow Elf. Plausibly it was earlier a Half-Drow.

We will see if this remains the rule, that was just the UA material. I understand the reasons, but it makes it not backwards compatible. I don't care that people say there is a kloogy way to do it - it's not backwards compatible to eliminate one of the most popular races, in both name and mechanics, and pretend it's still compatible. So we will see if they received that message or not.

 

[Mistwell]

What issue?

All 2024 Eberron Half Elves will use either Elf or Human for player stats. The monster statblocks use different rules anyway.

There will still be Half Elves.

All the "Houses" will be a background feats.

All the Human species are already Any alignment anyway.

It's an issue for many people. Telling people they have no issue with this topic because there is a replacement they're not happy with isn't the same as there being no issue. There is an issue. BG3 made it a worse issue. WOTC is in fact dealing with a problem with this topic.

 

[Yaarel]

We will see if this remains the rule, that was just the UA material. I understand the reasons, but it makes it not backwards compatible. I don't care that people say there is a kloogy way to do it - it's not backwards compatible to eliminate one of the most popular races, in both name and mechanics, and pretend it's still compatible. So we will see if they received that message or not.

I think the 2024 Players Handbook can thread the needle. Use the Human-Elf as the main example for how to build a multispecies character, and make sure it is reasonably satisfying.


Here are the 2014 Half-Elf traits. The Ability bonuses are now moot. Language is moot, 2024 grants three.

• Fey, Charm Resistance
• Darkvision
• Choose two skills

In my opinion the above three traits are unworthy of defining a species. In any case.


Here, is the 2024 Elf traits

• Fey, Charm Resistance
• Darkvision
• Perception skill proficiency
• Cantrip plus cantrip-like lineage
• Slot 1 and slot 2 spells
• Trance, Sleep Immunity

Allowing any character to swap a cantrip for any proficiency would then approximate the 2014 Half-Elf. Indeed, there can be a new cantrip that itself grants a proficiency with skill, tool, weapon, or language, swappable per Long Rest.

In any case, even Fey, Charm Resistance, and Perception skill is already close enough, especially when the background and background feat can grant many skill proficiencies.


Here is the 2024 Human traits.

• Extra Inspiration
• Choose one skill proficiency
• Free background feat

Indeed, a new 2024 background feat that grants Fey, Charm Resistance, one skill proficiency, and Darkvision, would be spot on for the 2014 Half Elf, but isnt even worth doing. To make it more appealing, grant Fey, Charm Resistance, Darkvision, and one cantrip.


(Again, the Darkvision itself can be a cantrip, and absent from the 2024 Elf description but available as a choice of cantrip. In which case, the elven Feat would be Fey, Charm Resistance, plus choose two cantrips, which feels elven enough when using a Human stat.)


The 2014 Half-Elf lacks enough information. There is little or nothing to rescue.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

Allowing any character to swap a cantrip for any proficiency would then approximate the 2014 Half-Elf. Indeed, there can be a new cantrip that itself grants a proficiency with skill, tool, weapon, or language, swappable per Long Rest.

Sorry, we're in a dead magic zone, so my character can no longer communicate with the rest of the party - I was using my innate elf cantrip to speak and understand Common.

The 2014 Half-Elf lacks enough information. There is little or nothing to rescue.

If they made the effort, they could give it enough information.

Instead, Khoravar players are being told to be happy their characters are elves now.

 

[Yaarel]

If they made the effort, they could give it enough information.

Instead, Khoravar players are being told to be happy playing elves now.

I agree the 2024 Players Handbook needs some way to present an appealing Human-Elf, because it was and remains popular.

The thing is, the 2014 Half-Elf itself is moot. Its main trait was the ability score improvements, but that doesnt matter anymore.

It is impossible to add new information to the 2014 Half-Elf, because then it would no longer be a 2014 Half-Elf.

Meanwhile, it is possible to use either the Elf stat or the Human stat, to reconstruct the 2014 Half-Elf or approximate it well enough.