What Licensed RPG Do You Wish Used A Different System?

[Thomas Shey]

Being able to approximate a superhero in 5E is not really the point of the original argument though. The claim was that one couldn't build a class and level based superhero game on the 5E chassis that wasn't a "design failure" as a superhero game. Even more, the claim was that any superhero game was a design failure unless it could do any kind or scale of supers. Unless of course it gets an arbitrary pass for being narrative or focused.

Given I made the latter qualification in part of that statement in virtually the first part of my criticism there (where I mentioned AMP:Y)), if you're going to get snarky about it, take it up with whoever you're arguing with in your head, not me.

Spoiler: a class and level.supers game is totally viable if, as with any other game, it does what you want it to do in play. And even if it doesn't, it isn't a "design failure" it is just not the game you were looking for.

Do you somehow think I'm going to agree with this more the second time you go around with me on it? Is something supposed to have changed?

Edit: To make this abundantly clear, I'm talking about general-purpose superhero games here; I'll accept theoretically that a class and level (though the latter part is a harder sell) system might be appropriate for some special purpose (i.e. setting specific) superhero or superhero adjacent games. That said, it'd have to be very specific; just being low powered or narrow is not going to help, per se; it requires that the setting has reasons for types to be strongly bucketed that is not normal or superhero settings in general.

 

[Faolyn]

Nothing wrong with that at all, but it notably makes your job easier than in a game that is primarily representing things in sort of a physical reality sense (it also doesn't hurt that the ones I'm familiar with like Masks and the like have somewhat narrow scope).

True. But we're also like this with D&D and, back when we played it, GURPS. Not games with narrow scopes at all or that emphasize a Narrative-heavy style of play all that much. It's harder to ignore the rules and say our powers do something that isn't RAW, but it's definitely possible.

 

[Aldarc]

I would honestly be curious seeing any IP setting currently under D&D’s lock and key with another system, if only to see what some other game company could do with it using their in-house system.

 

[Faolyn]

I really just miss Damage Reduction.

I would miss it more if it weren't so fiddly. DR 2, DR 6, DR 10, DR 4 against non-silvered weapons, whatever (no, those aren't actual examples). It becomes Yet Another Thing for the GM to calculate. There should be a "takes 3/4 damage," but that would be rather difficult for some people to calculate on the fly, and would cause combat to drag if calculators are involved.

Maybe a "take damage from dice but don't add modifiers" deal. Your longsword does 1d8 damage, don't add your strength. Not great, maybe but far easier to calculate.

 

[overgeeked]

I would honestly be curious seeing any IP setting currently under D&D’s lock and key with another system, if only to see what some other game company could do with it using their in-house system.

Spelljammer with Pirate Borg or 7th Sea. Eberron with Savage Worlds or Fate. Dark Sun with Mork Borg. Mystara with Old-School Essentials.

 

[Faolyn]

I would honestly be curious seeing any IP setting currently under D&D’s lock and key with another system, if only to see what some other game company could do with it using their in-house system.

I would really like to see Planescape using the Cypher system. And Eberron would probably work well in SWADE, since SWADE is designed for pulp-action-type games and that's what Eberron is geared to.

 

[Thomas Shey]

True. But we're also like this with D&D and, back when we played it, GURPS. Not games with narrow scopes at all or that emphasize a Narrative-heavy style of play all that much. It's harder to ignore the rules and say our powers do something that isn't RAW, but it's definitely possible.

There are a lot of modern, primarily representative SHRPGs that have some sort of tool to do that; I was actually a little surprised when Mighty Protectors came out without any sort of power-stunting ability, but the author can be aggressively old-school in his design sensibilities in some ways.

What you usually have to get into a narrative focused game for is to have wide ranges of power without the system being pretty overt about it; even though they're both modern games, contrast the superhero versions of Cortex and Prowlers and Paragons here. I find the compression in the former bothers me, but there's no question it doesn't make certain issues easier. That's one of the recognizable advantages with working with the narrative function of powers rather than the in-world function, and I'm not going to deny it just because it isn't my cuppa.

 

[MichaelSomething]

That's very likely. When it comes to different game systems out there, a lot of gamers develop loyalties early, and strongly. My gaming group has been longing to play something other than 5E Dungeons & Dragons, but they have made it crystal clear that they will not switch to a different system ever again...not even to a different edition of D&D that they're already familiar with.

So to play Star Wars, for example, our DM had to find a 5E/SRD based version. And fortunately for us, it exists (and it's awesome.) But when I posted about it in another thread, I was surprised at all of the "ugh why 5E, play something else" comments. I'd love to, buddy, but my gaming group will. not. switch.

Your group would be the perfect fit for Doctors and Daleks. It transforms Dr. Who into a 5E game!

 

[CleverNickName]

Your group would be the perfect fit for Doctors and Daleks. It transforms Dr. Who into a 5E game!

I need this link right now.

 

[overgeeked]

I need this link right now.

I was a vocal naysayer of the Doctors & Daleks game and I'll be the first to admit I was dead wrong. Doctors & Daleks does a fantastic job of porting Doctor Who to the 5E engine. I still prefer the 2d6 Vortex version, but Doctors & Daleks is great.

 

[MichaelSomething]

I need this link right now.

Search engines are your friend...

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[General_Tangent]

I'd have liked to have seen the Terminator rpg use the same system as Aliens and Blade Runner only because it would make an interesting cross over.

 

[eyeheartawk]

Spelljammer with Pirate Borg or 7th Sea.

Wait.

What version of 7th Sea?

 

[aramis erak]

I think people make too much of 2d20s metacurrency pools. It isn't really a narrative system, unless you say any game with "hero points" is a narrative system.

It does, however, require the GM to spend metacurrency to add various things in mid scene.
And allows adding NPCs and traps with very limited need to back explain it; it just happens to be there once the GM spends the points.
And conversely, the players can buy equipment in the scene for similar costs.

That puts it well outside Trad.

 

[Reynard]

It does, however, require the GM to spend metacurrency to add various things in mid scene.
And allows adding NPCs and traps with very limited need to back explain it; it just happens to be there once the GM spends the points.
And conversely, the players can buy equipment in the scene for similar costs.

That puts it well outside Trad.

That requirement is because there is a metacurrency flow built into the system, not because it is "narrative." If the GM spends everything on combat only, the game is unbalanced. And many, many trad games allow players to spend "hero points" to have an item they need or a convenient environment element or an unusual or circumstantial use of an ability.

 

[aramis erak]

That requirement is because there is a metacurrency flow built into the system, not because it is "narrative." If the GM spends everything on combat only, the game is unbalanced. And many, many trad games allow players to spend "hero points" to have an item they need or a convenient environment element or an unusual or circumstantial use of an ability.

From where I sit, if the fate point do more than keep your character breathing, they've taken the game well outside the Trad space. Most of my older players (born before 1990) consider WFRP 1 to have left because it has fate points that save your character's butt from a lethal situation.

And 2d20, with it's traits being +1, -1, can do, or cannot do, and sometimes being used for multiple things... well, that's every bit as narrativist as Cortex Plus/Prime or FATE. (None of which would I put firmly into the narrativist space, either ... Blood & Honor, well... THAT's as narrativist as AW or other PBTA/AWE games. )

 

[Reynard]

From where I sit, if the fate point do more than keep your character breathing, they've taken the game well outside the Trad space.

That is a peculiar definition of "trad" and "narrativist."

Most of my older players (born before 1990) consider WFRP 1 to have left because it has fate points that save your character's butt from a lethal situation.

Gognards gonna grognard, I guess (Note, I was born well before 1990).

And 2d20, with it's traits being +1, -1, can do, or cannot do, and sometimes being used for multiple things... well, that's every bit as narrativist as Cortex Plus/Prime or FATE. (None of which would I put firmly into the narrativist space, either ... Blood & Honor, well... THAT's as narrativist as AW or other PBTA/AWE games. )

I don't know Cortex, but Fate is not wholly a narrative game. it layers its narrative elements on top of a pretty traditional core mechanic. Again, metacurrency in and of itself isn't "narrativist" but YMMV.

 

[aramis erak]

don't know Cortex, but Fate is not wholly a narrative game. it layers its narrative elements on top of a pretty traditional core mechanic. Again, metacurrency in and of itself isn't "narrativist" but YMMV.

When it buys things to be added into the narrative state, it certainly the hell is! and that's a strong part of the use in both Cortex Plus/Prime and in Fate. If you are not using PP/FP to add things in, you're not playing the game as designed. They both can, every bit as much as Destiny spends in FFG SW or Genesys, or 2d20 Momentum, simply pop things into existence that are then presumed to have been there all along.

"I need a thermal detonator..." plot point, crosses off the relevant stashed one at the base, "I stopped by the armory on the way out and grabbed one." - that's a perfectly valid mechanical action which has "story revision wave" written all over it.

In Dune - player spent momentum to have grabbed his father's shield belt... 3 scenes after daddy died.

In 2d20 trek... "I just happen to have been studying up on Bortalian Biology, which is similar to the local" (Temporary trait. Provides a +1 to analyze it, and probably enables getting to make more sweeping assertions.

In all three, the mechanics are directly impacting the narrative by adding things that simply weren't in the story to that point.

 

[Reynard]

When it buys things to be added into the narrative state, it certainly the hell is! and that's a strong part of the use in both Cortex Plus/Prime and in Fate. If you are not using PP/FP to add things in, you're not playing the game as designed. They both can, every bit as much as Destiny spends in FFG SW or Genesys, or 2d20 Momentum, simply pop things into existence that are then presumed to have been there all along.

"I need a thermal detonator..." plot point, crosses off the relevant stashed one at the base, "I stopped by the armory on the way out and grabbed one." - that's a perfectly valid mechanical action which has "story revision wave" written all over it.

In Dune - player spent momentum to have grabbed his father's shield belt... 3 scenes after daddy died.

In 2d20 trek... "I just happen to have been studying up on Bortalian Biology, which is similar to the local" (Temporary trait. Provides a +1 to analyze it, and probably enables getting to make more sweeping assertions.

In all three, the mechanics are directly impacting the narrative by adding things that simply weren't in the story to that point.

So a variable power pool in Hero is a narrative mechanic? Who knew.

 

[aramis erak]

So a variable power pool in Hero is a narrative mechanic? Who knew.

Quite a few people. Including Steve Long...