D&D 5E What size (thickness) book are you hoping the PHB, DMG, and MM will be and how much fluff do you expect?

[ForeverSlayer]

Hopefully Next will shape up so I will play it when it is finalized, but if it does I hope it's going to be a pretty thick book that's full of fluff. Not only do I buy gaming books for the rules, I also buy them to read. Sometimes I don't really have time to come up with my own stuff so that's why I like to turn to the books for my inspiration. That's why I hope the Next books, especially the PHB, DMG, and MM will be filled to the brim with not only rules but fluff.

Discuss.

 

[Stormonu]

320 pages at least. There's a lot of stuff to cover.

Fluff-wise is hard to say. The 4E books felt like reading from an encyclopedia, too dry. But the descriptions of 5E's spells in the spell packet were too full of flowery verbage. For my buck, the 3E books had about the right balance. I also like the way Pathfinder introduces each chapter with a small story to accompany the chapter's picture. I'd like to see little sidebars like that through the rulebook - a story evolving in the margins in the PHB and DMG. Perhaps from the heroes side in the PHB, and from the villain's side in the DMG.

For me, the one book they have to get right, though, is the MM. My favorite is the 2E hardbound MC - mostly for the sheer number of monsters in the book. Though the combat section of the monster entries could often be tightened up, I like the touches in the ecology and habitat sections that often gave great ideas for how to incorporate the monster into an adventure. Save the encounter groups for the "No. Encountered/Organization" stat line.

<Addendum> They should likewise make an abbreviated game, ala the old beginner sets of the 80's, and like the Pathfinder beginner box. Give folks a 64-page game that's reusable unto itself, or a stepping stone to the expanded version of the game. Definately don't make it the preview-to-play junk of the two 4E intro sets.

 

[Li Shenron]

I was very comfortable with the size of core books in 3e, thus for me ~300-350 pages of each of the 3 corebooks or equivalently ~900-1000 pages for the core as a whole is the sweet spot.

As for fluff, it's complicated... I love fluff but core might be better off if conceived more as a toolbox. I don't think I really need spell fluff or character "building blocks" fluff, but OTOH I certainly need monster fluff and perhaps even magic items fluff.

It shouldn't go overboard of course. There is no need for habitat and ecology details for every single monster, especially since IMHO monsters are more interesting when they are more varied, and that includes not every monster having an ecology but instead some monsters having unknown origin or even totally unrealistic or nonsensical backstories (like in tales). I understand that some DMs want a "sensible" world where every monster has a place in the food chain and evolution chart, but for other DMs that can be terribly boring.

Often I think that what really captures me, is the kind of information that lies at the blurred boundary between crunch and fluff, i.e. something that is usable in the game but is not represented by numbers. For instance, description of monster tactics, not just for the combat phase, but also in a more general sense, how the monster should be played by the DM while in the other phases of the game.

So in conclusion, I'd like the fluff of the PHB to be mostly limited to races (but the current write-ups are more than enough for me), but I totally want the weapons & armors descriptions too. For the DMG I'd like some fluff for magic items. For the MM it's hard to tell, but enough fluff for each monster to be "droppable" into an encounter, adventure, campaign or fantasy setting with relative ease.

Also, they should not forget that the most effective "fluff" is the artwork

 

[delericho]

I'm still hoping for a single Core Rulebook of about 250 pages, with the PHB, DMG, and MM being supplements to that CR - each of about 320 pages.

 

[Libramarian]

I'm not tied to the "trinity". I would like to see the ~64pg beginner box thing be THE core product. Sounds crazy but you could do it by moving most of the monsters, spells, items and character options online. Then offer people the choice to access that stuff via subscription or buy compilations in book form. I think the goal should be for new players to play with a board game-like box and then a subscription. Books don't say game to most people.

 

[Blackbrrd]

I hope for a thickness of 0. In other words, I hope they go for a digital approach, optimized for tablets. For the printed version, around 150-200 pages should be ok for the DMG and PHB. The MM can't be big enough in my opinion.

Regarding content, I hope they keep the rules relatively concise, but interesting. The 4e PHB was a miserable read filled with boring powers to read through. The sheer amount of niche magic items also detracted a lot in my opinion. I don't think I have read through ANY of the 4e books. It felt a bit like reading the phone registry.

 

[delericho]

Regarding the proportion of fluff, I felt that the 3e core rulebooks had about the right amount. (Actually, the 4e ones did, too, though it was really badly presented.) The key thing to remember is that although this is our 5e, for someone new to the game it is their first edition, so while we already know what a Treant is, it's not acceptable to just assume that they do too.

 

[delericho]

I hope for a thickness of 0. In other words, I hope they go for a digital approach, optimized for tablets.

I don't think we're yet at the point where WotC can simply abandon print. It needs to be considered at least as important as any digital approach.

That said, there should be a digital version (or, better, several optimised for different platforms), and there's no particular reason those should simply be the same books in PDF format - the electronic tools allow scope for considerably more, and it would make sense for WotC to leverage that, if they have the resources to do so.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I'm not tied to the "trinity". I would like to see the ~64pg beginner box thing be THE core product. Sounds crazy but you could do it by moving most of the monsters, spells, items and character options online. Then offer people the choice to access that stuff via subscription or buy compilations in book form. I think the goal should be for new players to play with a board game-like box and then a subscription. Books don't say game to most people.

This, very much this.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I'm not tied to the "trinity". I would like to see the ~64pg beginner box thing be THE core product. Sounds crazy but you could do it by moving most of the monsters, spells, items and character options online. Then offer people the choice to access that stuff via subscription or buy compilations in book form. I think the goal should be for new players to play with a board game-like box and then a subscription. Books don't say game to most people.

Given that one of the goals of D&D Next is to make this edition FEEL like the other editions and make people who might have exited from the game at any point in history feels welcome to come back, I just don't see them deviating from the trinity. Its worked in every edition so far and to do something different in this edition is to make it feel disconnected from every other edition.