What the heck is "First Edition Feel"?

[MerricB]

Just kill the thread, Piratecat. The very discussion of the concept of "1st edition feel" is a flamewar in itself.

According to a 1e lover and 3e hater, "1st edition feel" is everything that 1e did right that 3e does wrong. (Which is to say, pretty much everything).

According to a 1e hater and 3e lover, "1st edition feel" is everything that 1e did wrong and that 3e does right.

Any definition is also so full of exceptions...

e.g. "1e is story over rules, 3e is rules over story".
e.g. "1e is where petty details aren't as important as a good time."

 

[francisca]

Then there's the issue of balance. 1e had no concerns about balance.

Well, it's left in the hands of the DM, and not institutionalized. A 1e DM who continually throws Ogres at a first level party, resulting in TPKs, is likely to end up running solo adventures out of the back of the DMG before too long.

I keep seeing the terms unbalanced, ad-hoc, and arbitrary applied to 1e. While there is some truth to that, you will find Gygax himself stressing balance and enjoying the experience above all else in the game. Remarks like that are prominent in the beginning of the DMG, and sprinkled throughout. I think he simply never presumed to know what your personal game would look like, and therefore offered no magic formula for what encounter was appropriate for a particular party.

You can also find ad-hoc and arbitrary rulings in 3e. Ever adjust a DC on the fly? Ever DM a party not comprised of the pre-fab 4, which knocks the CR system off kilter? Ever thumbnail sketch a character and assign skill points on the fly? If you've made adjustments to monsters, altered a save DC, or run a non-"standard" party, you **have** to make ad-hoc and arbitrary rulings. I mean, is guessing and saying that you think some Bugbear Rogue has 7 ranks in move silently in 3e any more arbitrary than say, deciding you want a Bugbear Thief, and decide he should have the skills of a 4th level Thief in 1e?

In the end, in every edition of D&D, game balance comes down to the DM, and the relationship between DM and player. The players need to trust the DM to provide a challenging adventure, neither over nor underwhelming. Sure, the CR/EL system helps, especially for newly minted DMs, and while the formulamatic approach appeals to the engineer in me, balance is simply not a matter of "plug and chug".

Following your programming example, 1e AD&D is like Pre-ANSI K&R C. It's a long rope, and you have a large degree of freedom. You can swing on it, or hang yourself with it. 3e is similar, except the rope length, diameter, and composition of the fibers is defined.

Now, as to the topic, I dunno. Ask Clark Peterson or Goodman. To me, the way I ran 3e, it still felt like D&D to me. Lets see:

Swords? Check.
Magic? Check.
Dragons? Check.
Adventure? Check.
Travelling to exotic locales, meeting bizarre and interesting creatures, then killing them and taking their stuff? Check. Check. Check.
Using cleverness and the abilities of my char to do things I cannot do in real life? Check.
Having a good time with friends? Check.

Up until the end of last year, I played and DMed both OD&D/1e and 3e. Guess what, when I think back to the adventures of last year, it ain't the freaking system I remember. It's the joy of gaming.

EDIT: oops. p-cat beat me to the post. sorry to flog a dead horse.

 

[Akrasia]

Mind you, bashing 1st ed as being inferior to later editions is like bashing an oxcart for being inferior to a Dodge Ram truck. You need to have the oxcart, from a line of development standpoint. Yes, 1st ed D&D seems extremely illogical by the viewpoint of the modern gamer. Forgive it. The first game designers were literaly inventing a new hobby, and were clearly more concerned with flavor than mechanics. What modern game design allows for is refinement in how we game and the systems we use. But you naturaly need to crawl before you walk.

Ummm ... did you not read the earlier post from PirateCat about not descending into a flamewar?

Now if the scorn is for those who would ratehr play older editions, thats a horse of a different color.

So heaping scorn on players of OOP games is okay? :\

Prediction: thread lock within 4 posts ...

 

[MrFilthyIke]

Prediction: thread lock within 4 posts ...

One last post before lockdown

 

[loki44]

I disagree with those claiming that OD&D ruleset is restrictive or inconsistent in some way. On the contrary, for me "1st edition feel" means the sky's the limit (or beyond the sky as the case may be).

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Just kill the thread, Piratecat. The very discussion of the concept of "1st edition feel" is a flamewar in itself.

According to a 1e lover and 3e hater, "1st edition feel" is everything that 1e did right that 3e does wrong. (Which is to say, pretty much everything).

According to a 1e hater and 3e lover, "1st edition feel" is everything that 1e did wrong and that 3e does right.

Any definition is also so full of exceptions...

e.g. "1e is story over rules, 3e is rules over story".
e.g. "1e is where petty details aren't as important as a good time."

Some people dislike 1e some like it alot. Therefore it is impossible to talk about it's feel without bias unless there is some flaming.

I never played 1e. Hell I wasn't even yet born when it was made. But I think it is important to respect it soley on the basis that it was the predecessor to D&D today and to RPGs in general.

 

[MerakSpielman]

When people look back to when they first played D&D, there is a certain magic or nostalgia in the memory.

When they cannot capture that feeling again, they blame the new edition.

 

[GlassJaw]

I definitely think the modules have a different feel. I'm not talking about the hack n slash element either. Just look at some of the maps and the layout. Compare the Desert of Desolation series or some of the UK modules and maps to current modules. They just evoke a different mood and style. It's definitely something I can't really describe or put my finger on but it's there.

 

[Arnwyn]

I started gaming in the late 70's and I have no idea what this means.

Can someone fill me in.?

I don't know what "First Edition Feel" means.

Are you referring to Necromancer Games' tagline, or something else? If the former, then obviously you're asking such a question in the wrong place (though it has been answered numerous times by the Necro Games folks. Google's your friend, here). If the latter, then please be more specific.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

When people look back to when they first played D&D, there is a certain magic or nostalgia in the memory.

When they cannot capture that feeling again, they blame the new edition.

Mark gains +2 Buddha points