D&D 5E (+)What Ubiquitous DnD Tropes Get It Totally Wrong?

[Derren]

Fair enough, although, 100 years, for most of human history, isn't really all that long for massive technological changes.

The changes would be less pronounced than in modern times but even when you look at early medieval times things change in 100 years, especially, but not limited to, warefare and weapons.
Also its not only about technological changes but also social or political ones. In 100 years you probably had at least one if not several wars no matter where you lived and borders were redrawn. Quite likely some country ceased to exist and several others were founded.

 

[Hussar]

Oh, totally. Heck, even the notion of nation state is fairly anachronistic in a D&D context. In a hundred years, a region could certainly change from a loose conglomeration of effectively city states to a unified nation state. Oh, for sure.

Frankly, I don’t understand why people are so opposed to gunpowder in D&D.

Well, I think that it becomes really hard to maintain suspension of disbelief. We know, at least we have a pretty good idea, what a gunshot wound looks like. No one really knows what a dragon bite looks like. So, we can ignore the completely unbelievable elements of D&D - ie. being able to kill a dinosaur with a sword much easier than someone being shot two or three times.

 

[Derren]

Well, I think that it becomes really hard to maintain suspension of disbelief. We know, at least we have a pretty good idea, what a gunshot wound looks like. No one really knows what a dragon bite looks like. So, we can ignore the completely unbelievable elements of D&D - ie. being able to kill a dinosaur with a sword much easier than someone being shot two or three times.

Imo its more out of tradition because early fantasy works did not have them.
Also for the same reason most superheroes fight with their fists. Ranged weapons are boring. You can point and shoot and the opponent drops dead. With melee weapons you have attacks, blocks, counters and all the cool stunts.

 

[Tonguez]

Imo its more out of tradition because early fantasy works did not have them.
Also for the same reason most superheroes fight with their fists. Ranged weapons are boring. You can point and shoot and the opponent drops dead. With melee weapons you have attacks, blocks, counters and all the cool stunts.

Guns arent much different than wands really, albeit that wands have the lustre of ‘magic’ to recommend them. So yeah its mainly fantasy tradition and I think the perception that gunpowder represents an epic change in technology from ‘Medieval’ to ‘Modern’.
Personally I think guns are fine and should be treated as wands

 

[Krachek]

These arent DnD tropes though, theyre tropes across ALL fiction

Atlantis was a fallen advanced society, Indiana Jones and Tarzan were exploring all kinds of lost dungeons and well Fairytales are all set in the same “Once upon a time in a land far far away”.

And Dungeons in DnD worlds actually do make a kind of sense - commoners arent going to be keen to strip building materials from a haunted ruin when theres a real chance of being killed or eaten by monsters.

In SciFi Star Wars is a kind of heavy trope,
James Bond also get a high score in trope.

 

[Don Durito]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned anything about the magic system at all.

It's completely all over the place.

For one thing we know that evocation magic historically began to hit it peak around about the 12th century. After that, with the changing of astrological conditions it began to wax heavily. and around 1400 only the most powerful of evokers could manage even a fireball, and a meteor storm was no longer possible. The last known casting of that spell took place in Italy in 1289 (although there are some reports that a French Wizard at the battle of Crecy was attempting to cast the spell before being interrupted midway through casting by an english longbowmen who loosed an arrow through his eye - some have taken this as evidence that the spell was still thought to at least be possible at that late stage - dubious, but the point is moot anyway as there are no known castings after that date.)

On the other hand, the mastery of necromancy seemed to follow the black death, with the surplus of fresh corpses and the overall astrological death aspect allowing for rapid advances in that field (not to mention the labour shortages which led to many municipalities reluctantly agreeing to look the other way in the case of animated labour).

Yet D&D has these two forms of magic being equally effective at the same time - a historical anachronism!

 

[Lanefan]

Guns arent much different than wands really, albeit that wands have the lustre of ‘magic’ to recommend them. So yeah its mainly fantasy tradition and I think the perception that gunpowder represents an epic change in technology from ‘Medieval’ to ‘Modern’.
Personally I think guns are fine and should be treated as wands

Part of it is that we've been conditioned over time to think that arrows and crossbow bolts don't always kill but bullets are insta-kill on any hit (particularly when the good guys shoot 'em), even though in reality they're probably much the same.

But yes, small arms could be more or less treated like wands.

The problem with gunpowder extends beyond just small arms, however.

For me the issues are twofold: once large arms and bombs become commonplace castles become almost pointless; and once you have functional gunpowder and thus concussive explosions it's a pretty small step to developing engines that run on (a variant of) these, which immediately moves your setting into pre-Industrial or even Industrial. Fine if you want a steampunk setting, not so fine if you want Renaissance or earlier.

Easier just to say that for whatever reason the setting physics don't support concussive explosions.

 

[Lanefan]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned anything about the magic system at all.

It's completely all over the place.

For one thing we know that evocation magic historically began hits it peak around about the 12th century. After that, with the changing of astrological conditions it began to wax heavily. and around 1400 only the most powerful of evokers could manage even a fireball, and a meteor storm was no longer possible. The last known casting of that spell took place in Italy in 1289 (although there are some reports that a French Wizard at the battle of Crecy was attempting to cast the spell before being interrupted midway through casting by an english longbowmen who loosed an arrow through his eye - some have taken this as evidence that the spell was still thought to at least be possible at that late stage - dubious, but the point is moot anyway as there are no known castings after that date.)

On the other hand, the mastery of necromancy seemed to follow the black death, with the surplus of fresh corpses and the overall astrological death aspect allowing for rapid advances in that field (not to mention the labour shortages which led to many municipalities reluctantly agreeing to look the other way in the case of animated labour).

Yet D&D has these two forms of magic being equally effective at the same time - a historical anachronism!

Even more anachronistic is the presence in D&D of illusionists, as we all know that the Golden Age of Illusion didn't really start until the late 20th century...

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Um Kingdom of the Crystal Skull? even Raiders of the Lost Ark had the Ark being an ancient reactor.

and many Fairytales do refer to a former ‘golden age’, before the bad thing happened. Think Sleeping Beauty and her 100 year sleep (okay 100 years isnt exactly ancient but it is ‘precusor era’)

Crystal Skull feature trans-dimensional beings, not a more advanced ancient civ, and idk where you are getting the “ancient reactor” thing, the arc is just magic.

And regardless, none of these examples leave civilizations entirely stagnant for a thousand years.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Part of it is that we've been conditioned over time to think that arrows and crossbow bolts don't always kill but bullets are insta-kill on any hit (particularly when the good guys shoot 'em), even though in reality they're probably much the same.

But yes, small arms could be more or less treated like wands.

The problem with gunpowder extends beyond just small arms, however.

For me the issues are twofold: once large arms and bombs become commonplace castles become almost pointless; and once you have functional gunpowder and thus concussive explosions it's a pretty small step to developing engines that run on (a variant of) these, which immediately moves your setting into pre-Industrial or even Industrial. Fine if you want a steampunk setting, not so fine if you want Renaissance or earlier.

Easier just to say that for whatever reason the setting physics don't support concussive explosions.

But gunpowder existed and was used for war for what historians call “a long-ass time” before things got remotely industrial. Heck, even castle walls took a while to stop being used.

Just don’t have gunpowder have been around for hundreds of years, and no one will bat an eye at the fact that people still carry swords and wear plate armor and hide behind stone walls.