What would a monk have to give up?

[jayaint]

...In your game, in order to either a) get the fighter's BAB progression? (Doubtful this would fly in our game, but I figured I'd ask) or b) to be treated as having a +1 BAB with unarmed strike at first level? (More realistic, yet it seems like an "odd" type of house-rule)

Is it possible to find a balance with this?

 

[CRGreathouse]

...In your game, in order to either a) get the fighter's BAB progression? (Doubtful this would fly in our game, but I figured I'd ask) or b) to be treated as having a +1 BAB with unarmed strike at first level? (More realistic, yet it seems like an "odd" type of house-rule)

Is it possible to find a balance with this?

a) This wouldn't go in my game. I've made a number of monk unarmed combat abilities into feats, and a person who wanted full base attack would be encouraged to be a fighter taking those feats.

b) Some fast movement, perhaps?

 

[jayaint]

After posting, then pondering, I see that the a) option isn't working under any circumstances....

Do you think that dropping Flurry of Blows would be a balanced tradeoff?

"Monks have the option of not gaining any FoB attacks, in order to have their unarmed attack treated as a +1 BAB at 1st level and thereafter has a +1 (named?) bonus to their attack(s)." Sacrificing speed for accuracy.

Something like that, as a built in class feature?

 

[CRGreathouse]

I think that if anything, that's giving up too much for the monk -- although I'd be afraid to do it quite the way you did, since it would make dipping one or two levels into monk too attractive for most martial characters.

 

[jayaint]

"...Only at first character level." ??? That way if it was gonna be a dip, it would have to start there.

 

[orangefruitbat]

Wouldn't it be easier to create unarmed combat feats for a fighter? Plus a few other feats to provide some monk-like abilities?

...In your game, in order to either a) get the fighter's BAB progression? (Doubtful this would fly in our game, but I figured I'd ask) or b) to be treated as having a +1 BAB with unarmed strike at first level? (More realistic, yet it seems like an "odd" type of house-rule)

Is it possible to find a balance with this?

 

[jayaint]

Wouldn't it be easier to create unarmed combat feats for a fighter? Plus a few other feats to provide some monk-like abilities?

Yes and no. Yes, for sure in terms of simple game mechanics, and this post is actually a result of a crumpled up piece of paper working on that exact idea.

No, because I do LIKE the monk class, i have just always thought that with everything else the monks give up, especially at low levels, it was silly for them to not at least get +1 on unarmed attacks, seeing as how they are modeled as the "best" at that particular martial skill.

If i can keep the whole flavor of the monk class, and yet find a trade-off/balancer to get them +1 BAB at first level, i think my monk-soul would be at peace

 

[CRGreathouse]

For comparison, here are my unarmed combat feats and my alternate monk class:
http://rpg.crg4.com/testfeats.html
http://rpg.crg4.com/classes.html#mystic

 

[Machiavelli]

If i can keep the whole flavor of the monk class...

Heh, that's odd. I never liked the "whole flavor" of the monk class. Monks are like Bruce Lee, able to kill anything that comes at them despite being half-naked and crazy. Yet EVERYONE wants to be a monk. There was only even ONE Bruce Lee, and maybe, just MAYBE a handful of men like him. Perhaps an epic-level monk should be expected to be like Bruce Lee, but an epic-level monk can also teleport with his mind, flutter safely to the ground like a leaf from great heights, drink poisons like water, and live forever.

Dubya. Tee. Eff.


Edit: Oh, and he can talk to puppy dogs and fireants, because he's so 4\/\/e50m3 like 'dat.