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KarinsDad said:
Indeed the case - fewer encounters which are all "very difficult" or worse, probably about 3 major encounters per level (certainly for the last three levels)
Cheers
What's the Deal with Staves?
- Thread starter darkelfo
- Start date
Indeed the case - fewer encounters which are all "very difficult" or worse, probably about 3 major encounters per level (certainly for the last three levels)
Cheers
Crunchy Frog
First Post
So, here's what's with staffs:
Advantages:
- User's casting stat affects save DC
- User's caster level affects variable aspects of spells/overcoming SR
- Higher level spells
- Variety of effects
Disadvantages:
- Expensive
So, an ideal staff would take advantage of the good aspects of staffs, but tries to minimize the expense.
Here's a not so good staff:
This staff gets you some combination of 25 uses of Charm Monster (a 4th level spell) and 50 uses of Charm Person (a 1st level spell)
By comparison, a Wand of Charm Monster gets you 50 uses of it for 21,000 gp. That's 100% more uses for about 25% more gold.
This staff doesn't have high-level spells. Also, an arcane spell caster with Charm Monster on his list is very likely to prepare it/have it to begin with. So it doesn't really add variety. (The higher spell DC is nice, though.)
Here's a better staff:
This has a variety of spells on it, that the caster might not necessarily carry with him: Repulsion sometimes gives you tactical control of the battlefield, but is not so useful when, say, attacking an entrenched enemy. Dismissal is effectively "save or die" for extraplanar enemies, but not so good in other circumstances. Lesser globe of invulnerability is great against groups of lesser spellcasters, but not so great against high-level spellcasters. Resist energy also has situational uses.
The spells in this staff add variety to the user's repertoire, that might not otherwise be present. Also, some of these spells are level-dependant enough that you'd rather have a staff than a stack of scrolls: Resist energy's bump to 30 points at Level 11, Dispel Magic's level check, and Dismissal's special saving throw.
Still, I think all of the staffs in the DMG could stand a little improvement. A have a few ideas for staffs that take advantage of the 3.5 rules, rather than being hold-overs from earlier versions of the game.
Advantages:
- User's casting stat affects save DC
- User's caster level affects variable aspects of spells/overcoming SR
- Higher level spells
- Variety of effects
Disadvantages:
- Expensive
So, an ideal staff would take advantage of the good aspects of staffs, but tries to minimize the expense.
Here's a not so good staff:
This staff gets you some combination of 25 uses of Charm Monster (a 4th level spell) and 50 uses of Charm Person (a 1st level spell)
By comparison, a Wand of Charm Monster gets you 50 uses of it for 21,000 gp. That's 100% more uses for about 25% more gold.
This staff doesn't have high-level spells. Also, an arcane spell caster with Charm Monster on his list is very likely to prepare it/have it to begin with. So it doesn't really add variety. (The higher spell DC is nice, though.)
Here's a better staff:
This has a variety of spells on it, that the caster might not necessarily carry with him: Repulsion sometimes gives you tactical control of the battlefield, but is not so useful when, say, attacking an entrenched enemy. Dismissal is effectively "save or die" for extraplanar enemies, but not so good in other circumstances. Lesser globe of invulnerability is great against groups of lesser spellcasters, but not so great against high-level spellcasters. Resist energy also has situational uses.
The spells in this staff add variety to the user's repertoire, that might not otherwise be present. Also, some of these spells are level-dependant enough that you'd rather have a staff than a stack of scrolls: Resist energy's bump to 30 points at Level 11, Dispel Magic's level check, and Dismissal's special saving throw.
Still, I think all of the staffs in the DMG could stand a little improvement. A have a few ideas for staffs that take advantage of the 3.5 rules, rather than being hold-overs from earlier versions of the game.
Philip
Explorer
calypso15 said:
That's just the thing with staffs/staves, they run out of charges. There are many, many staffs in the supplements, most of them 30,000 gp. and up. But since they run out of charges, you won't find any legendary staffs that have been passed down for generations around.
They may offer some value to your typical adventurer, but spending enough gold to buy a castle to make a single staff that usually expires within a couple of years? I don't think so.
Why make a staff of charming when you can cast the spell? To have a few backup charms ready? (you can cast a lot of charm persons per day already when you are able to make the staff in question) Are those backup charms worth it? I think not.
You won't find a staff of abjuration (65,000 gp.) in your treasure until you hit lvl 16 or 17. By then, would you actually use up an action to cast shield or resist energy?
I like staffs to be useful legendary items, but now they are perishable items worth a king's ransom for limited utility.
I wonder, has anyone ever had a character that took Create Staff feat and actually made a staff?
Crunchy Frog
First Post
OK, first new staff:
Staff of Pursuit: This staff is typically used by law-enforcers, and so is often topped with a gold star.
- E's Black Tentacles (1 charge)
- Dimensional Anchor (1 charge)
- Prying Eyes (2 charges)
- B's Grasping Hand (2 charges)
Moderate varied; CL 13th, Craft Staff, E's Black Tentacles, Dimensional Anchor, Prying Eyes, B's Grasping Hand. Price: 70987.5 gp (Grasping: 68250/2, Anchor: 21000*75%, Tentacles: 21000*50%, Prying: (41250/2)*50%, MW quarterstaff 300)
(At least I think that's it's price.)
So, Prying Eyes tracks down miscreants, and the other spells keep them from getting away.
Black Tentacles, Grasping Hand, and Prying Eyes all benefit from high caster level. This assortment of spells is often useful, but not often enough that most casters would always have all of them prepared, and so adds variety to a spell-caster's arsenal.
Staff of Pursuit: This staff is typically used by law-enforcers, and so is often topped with a gold star.
- E's Black Tentacles (1 charge)
- Dimensional Anchor (1 charge)
- Prying Eyes (2 charges)
- B's Grasping Hand (2 charges)
Moderate varied; CL 13th, Craft Staff, E's Black Tentacles, Dimensional Anchor, Prying Eyes, B's Grasping Hand. Price: 70987.5 gp (Grasping: 68250/2, Anchor: 21000*75%, Tentacles: 21000*50%, Prying: (41250/2)*50%, MW quarterstaff 300)
(At least I think that's it's price.)
So, Prying Eyes tracks down miscreants, and the other spells keep them from getting away.
Black Tentacles, Grasping Hand, and Prying Eyes all benefit from high caster level. This assortment of spells is often useful, but not often enough that most casters would always have all of them prepared, and so adds variety to a spell-caster's arsenal.
Crunchy Frog
First Post
Phillip: True, but you might find a used Staff of Abjuration (say 20 charges left) at level 13. In any case, Resist Energy's long duration (2 hrs+) might make it feasible to use this in advance of battle.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Bad Paper said:
Well, it's not exactly a standard staff! The Luck bonus to AC and saves is wondrous-itemmy. I'd guess the Shield is a custom at-will spell-trigger ability that uses the activator's caster level, rather than a normal staff power.
-Hyp.
TheGogmagog
First Post
I like the staff that from the end of page one that could be recharged when the moon was right and whatnot.
I thought there were standard rules (or at least an option) for recharging a staff, similar to the cost of repairing a damaged magic item.
I thought there were standard rules (or at least an option) for recharging a staff, similar to the cost of repairing a damaged magic item.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
TheGogmagog said:
Yeah. If your staff has zero charges remaining, you can give it fifty charges if you have the Craft Staff feat and the requisite spells, by spending gold, XP, and time equal to the original cost of creating the staff.
-Hyp.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
Having looked at the numbers:
With the exception of improved caster level and better save DCs, you're almost always better off buying a stack of scrolls instead of a staff. There are a few staves that are worth having instead of a stack of scrolls, but they're limited in versatility, and still only worth it if you stick to using their highest-level power.
Once you're comparing with wands... forget it. If the spell fits in a wand, put it in a wand. If it's a damage spell or something that relies on caster level or save, then you can afford to metamagic it and increase the caster level without it costing more than an equivalent staff from the list. For instance the previously mentioned wall of fire could be produced as a wand with a caster level of 10 for less than twice the price of the staff - and it has twice the charges.
With that in mind - if you're going to buy a staff, you want few powers in it, and those powers should all either rely on a high save DC, or rely heavily on caster level, and your minimum caster level/casting stat should be very good.
With the exception of improved caster level and better save DCs, you're almost always better off buying a stack of scrolls instead of a staff. There are a few staves that are worth having instead of a stack of scrolls, but they're limited in versatility, and still only worth it if you stick to using their highest-level power.
Once you're comparing with wands... forget it. If the spell fits in a wand, put it in a wand. If it's a damage spell or something that relies on caster level or save, then you can afford to metamagic it and increase the caster level without it costing more than an equivalent staff from the list. For instance the previously mentioned wall of fire could be produced as a wand with a caster level of 10 for less than twice the price of the staff - and it has twice the charges.
With that in mind - if you're going to buy a staff, you want few powers in it, and those powers should all either rely on a high save DC, or rely heavily on caster level, and your minimum caster level/casting stat should be very good.
