I like threads like these. You get to fill your ignore list to the brim in one single topic. Wonderul
Before I continue, my D&D CV:
My first contact with the game was Baldur's Gate. Didn't get to know too much of the rules out of it, since a lot is just managed by the computer. When I read about their new game - Neverwinter Nights - I noticed something about that 3e thingy. Curious about the game underneath it all, and convinced by the things they wrote about 3e, I got the PHB, and later all the core books, just to see what this roleplaying was all about.
Soon after I wanted to start roleplaying for real, and contacted some people I knew played that sort of game in the past. I found out that they were playing - but not the new 3e (they didn't like it), they played the previous version (AD&D2e).
Pretty soon the chains started to chafe. After reading the 3e book, the DM and other players kept telling me that this combination or that thing was not possible.
Knowing how many possibilities there could have been right from the start (character creation), the limiations annoyed me. Later, I started to hate them.
I later found(ed) a group willing to play 3e (which would become one of the best experiences I ever had in D&D, with the best DM around).
I eventually quit the AD&D game circle completely (though I have to say that it wasn't because of the rules - they were annoying, but you could still have some fun playing - but because almost every game was cancelled about 30 minutes after it was supposed to start).
So I can say I quite dislike AD&D2e, though I have to say that the people I played are in no small parts responsible (it's funny how you only realize stuff like that later. The gaming inertia is quite strong, even if things bug you, you want to play on, and it takes something big to make you quit a game). They seemed to embrace the limitations in the old system, seemed to hate the new system because you suddenly were able to play Dwarf Wizards (though no one ever held a gun to their head). Their game style was quite strict and limitating in other aspects of the game, too, which might have aggravated my dislike.)
I also think that it wasn't good to see 3e before 2e: I saw how easy it could all be, and then was confronted with limitations, tables and all that.
Where was I? Oh yes: I dislike AD&D2e rules, quite a bit.
But the thought of calling it "not-D&D" would never enter my head.
3e and 3.5e are still D&D. Not just in name. The basis of the game is still there, so many things I recognize from 2e and many that I know were there even sooner: You still have classes and levels (and races and classes are something separate, even though that wasn't always there), the general mechanic is a single die roll with bonuses, no pool mechanic, you still mostly kill things and take its stuff, magic is still quite different from almost everything else. There's still humans, elves, dwarves, orcs, mind flayers, eye tyrants, and dragons. You still have alignment, still have good and evil (among others) as tangible forces. The longsword still does 1d8, and katanas still don't do 5d20, as they should
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WayneLigon said:
a race and a couple classes that nobody I know ever played were gone
What were those?
Thurbane said:
Some of them even imply that heavy metal is barely even music (coincidentally, I think the same about much techno)...
I also often say that techno (and I don't make any distinctions between different kinds of techno - all techno to me) is no music, and say similar things about rap/hip-hop. I say that to friends/family members that are into those kinds of music.
And I say it deliberately to wind them up. They know I say it deliberately to wind them up, it's the usual banter between friends and family. I also have to listen to stuff like: "your jungle drum music there". Also the usual banter.
I know that I when I go to a music forum where mainly techno and hip hop/rap fans are around and make those statements, even if I should do them in jest, I'm trolling. It may be my opinion that most of it is rubbish, and I may just be there in order to look something up for my cousin who wants to know when the next [insert rap singer's name] album will be out, I'll shut it, ask my questions, and leave. It's no place for me. If it should be a place where people routinely bash metal, I don't go there.
Same could be said about D&D Third Edition in a board taht's mainly about D&D Third Edition:
You might not like the rules, you might not be here because of those rules, you might just be here to get some adventure hooks for your OD&D campaign, but it should be quite clear that if your opinion is the exact opposite of the prevailing opinion about the topic, and the topic in question is what the whole site is all about, stating your other opinion, and saying things like "3e isn't D&D, in my opinion, no offense" is inflammatory, and might even be trolling.
If you were on general RPG Message Boards where no one ruleset prevails, and posted it there (mind you, not in the sub-forums dedicated to that ruleset), it would be okay. Just an opinion stated.
But this isn't a general forum. It's mostly about 3e, and if you want to bash 3e here, don't be surprised if people roll their eyes and put you on their ignore lists.
WayneLigon said:
you can (hopefully) count on the next two editions pulling it further from OD&D/1E until we finally have a decent 21st century D&D game.
Something was stated by some of the people involved in the 3e/3.5e core books:
Some changes will be made gradually. They will be made in steps. When you're about to create a 3rd edition and see that something in 2nd edition should be modified a great deal, you often don't throw away the old part completely and rewrite it from scratch. You go and change it to about halfway where it is supposed to go, to something that is already better than the original, something that makes sense in of itself, but something that isn't yet exactly how you want it. That comes in fourth edition.
This is done so that players can have a smooth transition between two editions. The 3e rule will be newish but resemble the 2e rule, the 4e rule will be novel but still resemble 3e, but if you should compare 4e to 2e, you would see few (if any) parallels.
Nikosandros said:
I surmise that you play D&D just becase it's the most popular game around... because otherwise, surely you could have found a different RPG more to your liking.
That is often the case, actually. As I've written above: I'd have liked it a lot better if I could have started playing 3e, but there was no 3e game around. I had to play a game that I thought inferior to what I knew.
Nowadays, I have a great coterie of gamers, very enthusiastic guys. We play D&D, some Vampire, and I'm about to try out Legend of the Five Rings. I don't think whether I could get them to play something else.
And I know of a couple of D&D groups around, and some vampire games, and maybe a shadowrun game. I doubt I could find anything else around here.
Still, if I were a, say, GURPS fanatic that couldn't find a GURPS game, I might start playing D&D if it was that or nothing. I wouldn't go to D&D forums and tell them how much better this GURPS is, and that I only play D&D because I have to.
