What's the most significant difference you've found with 4e from 3e?

[Grazzt]

Yah, I'm with you on this. The disconnect between rules for PCs and rules for NPCs/Monsters puts me off DMing completely. The nonsensical rules and powers put me off playing completely.

And see, I like the differing rules for PCs and NPCs/monsters. PCs arent monsters. Monsters arent PCs. Just like the old days.

I'm with ya on the powers though. And some of the rules (few long lasting conditions, the goofiness of the saving throw mechanic, the 'i rest and heal ALL of my hit points' , etc)

 

[Arnwyn]

I didn't realize we were talking about the change from 1st ed. compared to everything that came after?

I haven't the foggiest what you're talking about. I was just answering the original question.

Seriously, I've always found the flavor after 1st ed. to be some bits that were strikingly good, quite a lot of average or slightly below average, and a not inconsiderable amount of pure stinkers. 4E is no different, in this regard.

For you. My post was clear enough for me.

 

[Howndawg]

4e combat has more emphasis on players working together.

4e combat feels more Heroish.

No more Johnny One-spell wizards who cast the same spell over and over again.

Magic items feel more like magic items and less like trinkets. 3e was too Monty Haul for me, especially at high levels.

Although AU/AE is awesome, Monty Cook's DMG does not hold a candle to James Wyatt's.

 

[tomBitonti]

How easy it is to design an adventure/dungeon...
Determine "level of adventure"
Determine XP pool for adventure (Solo monster x10)
Spend XP on quests, monsters, and skill-challenges
Determine Treasure Packets
Place on Map (if needed)
Arrange to Taste, allowing for a couple "off the cuff" ideas if the PCs do something unpredictable...

And yet ... I would say this is a way to generate a set of random encounters ... not so much an adventure/dungeon.

My adventures have always started with a cool idea, and with a whole lot of interacting reasons for why there are monsters in a particular location, and why there is a problem.

A simple idea: A long time ago, a dam was built across a river. Over time, that silted over, creating a wide bog. Within the bog are the ruins of the dam, including a lock.

More recently, a necromancer made use of blocks from the dam to construct a tower. The tower is directly over the lock.

Very recently, the necromancer died. Monsters invading his tower are steadily converted into undead, and have been wandering downstream into a populated area.

Encounters: A couple of undead at a town that is downstream. A talk with the town elders. An encounter with spiders in the bog, maybe with other bog critters. A pit trap at the entrance to the tower, with a fall into the lock (along with a couple of undead trapped there). Another encounter with undead in the tower, including the undead remains of the necromancer.

 

[Mercule]

And see, I like the differing rules for PCs and NPCs/monsters. PCs arent monsters. Monsters arent PCs. Just like the old days.

The sameness is something that attracted me to 3e, when it came out. I didn't like NPCs who could do things that the PCs got told "no" for. 3e also cured me of that thought. I'm happy with different rules that get similar results.

And yet ... I would say this is a way to generate a set of random encounters ... not so much an adventure/dungeon.<snip>

I don't see anything in the 4e encounter guidelines that would restrict what you're saying -- definitely no more than there was in 3e. 4e just makes it easier to organize the numbers.

 

[Simon Atavax]

Again, fights all are just PCs looking at their cards and deciding which power to use, instead of trying things that are cool on their own.

This. 4e feels very much like a sophisticated board game; reminds me a lot of RUNEBOUND on steroids. 3e felt like an RPG.

 

[Remathilis]

And yet ... I would say this is a way to generate a set of random encounters ... not so much an adventure/dungeon.

My adventures have always started with a cool idea, and with a whole lot of interacting reasons for why there are monsters in a particular location, and why there is a problem.

You misread my simplicity for flavorlessness. I wasn't talking about adventure DESIGN, merely implementation. I still tie my adventures together with a relatively tight cohesive narrative (In 4e so far, I've had my PCs rescue a noble from her wicked uncle and his hobgoblin mercenaries, face a group of rampaging orcs who were laying waste to local towns to appease their white-dragon "deity", and discover who betrayed, murdered, and stole the family fortune of a young merchants daughter whose ghost haunts the river near a patch of wild roses) I merely was commenting on how much easier it is to implement these plots using 4e's XP-budget and Treasure Parcel mechanics than the 3e's CR/EL and Treasure Table mechanics.

It frees me to focus on the story more and worry less about balancing CRs, for example.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

I haven't the foggiest what you're talking about. I was just answering the original question.

I think you missed the connection between the emoticon on the first paragraph, and the "Seriously" that starts the second.

And of course my opinion is my opinion. One of things I really like about 4E is the way the flavor can so easily be divorced from the mechanics--which makes it far easier for me to replace the flavor with my own.

 

[vagabundo]

I'm with ya on the powers though. And some of the rules (few long lasting conditions, the goofiness of the saving throw mechanic, the 'i rest and heal ALL of my hit points' , etc)

It's funny, I really like the Saving Throw mechanic and, to me, the healing now actually makes much more sense - well as much as it hitpoints can make sense.

 

[Scribble]

It's interesting about the minis thing...

I used to play 2e and previous with no minis. We almost hated the idea of using them... But now for the life of me, I don't think I could actually play 2e without them. I'm not really sure how the heck I managed to DM a fight without them. I guess my brain was able to track who was attacking who and were they were much better when I was 14 compaired to now that I'm 31...

Darn gittin older.