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What's wrong with the single-classed Ranger?
- Thread starter Kai Lord
- Start date
I think a good way to look at the ranger is to compare it to the Paladin, since both classes are set up in similar ways. I think (maybe I'm wrong) that most people consider the paladin to be relatively equal to the other classes. IF that's not true, we have another discussion, but anyway. Just for the record I've never played a ranger, I know others that have but I admit I've never gotten to play one for most of the reasons people have spouted. But I have played a paladin, even at high levels. And finally that I'm entering this argument with the inital bias that I think rangers are a bit weak.
Let's start the show.
Ranger vs Paladin:
1) Ability Requirements: What stats do you typcially need to be decent in this class?
Ranger: Dex, Str, Wis.
Paladin: Str, Wis, Cha
Winner: Even. Both need the same number of stats. While the Ranger's dex often gives him a lot of advantage with bow combined with his melee style, the Paladin's charisma bonus gives him several advantages.
2) Skills: Whose got more skillz?
Winner: Ranger. Without a doubt the Ranger gets this one. He gets more points, skills, and his skills directly effect what he does.
3) Abilites: What abilities does each character get?
Paladin:
Lay on Hands: A very nice ability for a paladin with decent charisma. While not cure crit wounds, it is nice to have in a pinch, and often gets much better with magic items to enhance charisma.
Aura of Courage: For a fighter type, will saves against fear are a big weakness, and the paladin has this one stopped cold, as well as helping out his allies.
Divine Grace: This is all the save feats rolled into one, with a little extra. This one is great is almost every situation.
Smite: A power weapon against evil enemies, something one tends to encounter a LOT. However, only having it once per day is kind of limiting.
Divine Health: Not something that comes up very often, and when it does, your fort save is often good enough anyway. Not a very powerful ability, but nice to have.
Detect Evil: Considering how much is takes for anyone to get any spell at will, this is a huge ability which means you should never get surprised by evil creatures.
Remove Disease: Having this be your only special ability at higher levels is really crap, its nice to have but its definatley not a high level ability or a particualry good one.
Turn Undead: While the paladin doesn't get turning as soon as the cleric, their very large charisma scores can often make up for that, and I've found that paladins can be near equal to clerics in turning power at low to mid levels.
Ranger:
Favored Enemy: A very weak ability in my opiinoin. While it does give you some benefits on some very important skills, the bonus goes up too little, it is VERY specific, and often very dm dependent, and doesn't work on all types of enemies.
Track: A good bonus feat, since it fits with the rangers style of play. A good ability for first level.
Two Weapon Fighting: For those who say this is just gravvy, its not really part of the ranger, I say that's crap. Everyone's abilities defines what that class can do and what that class represents, and since this is one of THREE abilites a ranger gets (4 if you count the animal compansion), that means it is an integral part of the ranger. Unfortunately, which has been shown in other postings, TWF tends to be weaker than sword/board or large sword at early levels, and doesn't really kick in until your magic weapons go up big time. That's not unbalancing in itself, but considering its one of so few abilites the ranger gets it kind of forces him into that role. While a paladin can go from horseback, to melee, to archery, to mounted archery, all decently well considering his stats, abilities, and armor, while the ranger is stuck with TWF or archery.
Winner: Paladin. His abilites not only are good, but are very defining of what the paladin is. And he has a good range of abilities, so your not reliant on just one. The rangers abilites just don't allow the ranger to stand out....ever.
Companions:
Paladin:
Bonded Mount: The mount is a big part of what defines a paladin. If we consider the mount to be a heavy warhorse (although at later levels it could get better if the DM allows), then you've got a creature with an 18 AC at paladin level 5, much more often with mounted combat and barding, its intelligent, fast, can attack with the paladin, has an emphathic link so it can share some of its knowledge, good hitpoints, and eventually spell resistance. The horse however, is not that useful in dungeons or in cities.
Handle Animal: THe paladin does have handle animal, but with the paladin's limited ranks its rare to use this skill.
Ranger:
Animal Companions: The ranger has much more flexibility in its animal companions. He can have all different types, and often many of them. However, companions tend to get weak at high levels. They have fairly low AC, and are all melee fighters so they don't last long in combat. They also don't have the improved evasion the bonded mount has to avoid spells.
Handle Animal: The ranger can usually have a good amoutn in this skill, increasing his companions in both number and utility. Unfortunately this skill requires a lot of time that some campaigns don't have.
Winner: Undecided. Both classes have companions that fit their classes, and each is strong in its own way.
Spells: How good are there spells, and how does it help the character concept?
Paladin: 1st level spells (limited to PHB and Defenders of Faith)
Bless: A good general spell for the paladin when not going against evil creatures, on the whole not too useful.
Bless Water: By 4 level and higher, 2d4 to an enemy for 25 gp is really bad.
Bless Weapon: A VERY good spell, extremely powerful against evil creatures until you get holy sword. And a paladin only spell, very nice.
Create Water: nice when needed.
Cure light wounds: Added healing is always nice, but without spontaneous casting it susually gets put on the backburner.
Detect Poison: Very unlikely a paladin is going to use this one.
Detect Undead: Since paladin's already have detect evil, not that useful.
Divine Favor: While a paladin at best can get a +3 bonus on this, it being a luck bonus means it will stack with almost everything, a great spell for a combat type.
endure elements: nice when needed
magic Weapon: almost never as good as bless weapon except against DR.
Protect. from Evil: Nice to counter mindcontrol.
Read Magic/Resistance/virtue: not used that much.
Divine Sacrifice: A very nice paladin only spell that fits the idea of a divine matyr like character extremely well. It has great power but also has a cost.
Ranger:
1st Level Spells: (including from Master's of the Wild)
Alarm: In a party not too useful. But for a ranger who is off on his own it can be a lifesaver and fits the ranger concept well.
Animal Friendship: Discussed elsewhere.
Delay Poison: Not something a ranger will typical prepare.
Detect Animals or Plants: Can be useful if hunting game, but otherwise not very useful.
Detect Snares and Pits: This one can be very useful when moving about in the wilderness, if just for the quicksand
Entangle: A great spell when you first get it. Can be very powerful indeed, but tends to lose effectiveness when creatures saves start going up, and there strength comes to the point where a 20 strength check isn't that hard.
Magic Fang: Considering the other spells a ranger could use, not that great.
Pass without Trace: Nice if your hunting, or being hunted.
Read Magic: nice when needed.
Resist Elements: A level 2 spell normally that is level 1 for the ranger is a nice touch. A very useful spell.
Speak with Animals: Its not divination, but sometimes it can be a good spell to have, although not one most are going to prepare often.
Summon Nature Ally I: Considering when you get them, all the summoning spells are crap. There's really not much point in using them, unless you need a flying scout or something.
Animal Trick: not a likely spell to be memorized.
bloodhound: If you wake up knowing your going to be tracking someone, great. Otherwise, not that good.
Camouflage: A very nice spell that fits the ranger profile.
Dawn: An interesting spell but not one a ranger is likely to have handy.
Hawkeye: Another good spell that fits the ranger idea.
Winner: Paladin (barely) this one was a close call. Both Paladin and Ranger have good spells at 1st level for their characters. I went with the paladin, because his spells tend to remain effective at higher levels moreso than the rangers.
2nd Level Spells:
Paladin:
Delay Poison: whatever
Remove Paralysis: If you know your fighting undead that might use this it could come in handy. Otherwise, not that useful.
Resist Elements: The paladin is preety late in getting this spell, although it still remains useful.
Shield Other: Considering a paladin often has a great AC and good hps, this is a great spell to keep your friends alive.
Undetectable Alignment: Doesn't seem to fit the paladin's profile as much, can be handy in an investigation situation however.
Blessed Aim: Can be a very nice spell when conducting a campaign from afar.
Curse of the Brute: it sucks to lose your charisma, and its enhancement bonus which means it won't stack with that much.
Zeal: An interesting spell that helps get through the followers and take on teh leader.
Ranger:
Animal Messenger: For a scout, this can be good to send messages back to base camp.
Cure light wounds: Preety late for this spell, but it does let them use the wands of CLW, and any healing is better than none.
Detect Chaos/.... good to find your enemies.
Hold Animal: A powerful spell against animals, who tend not to have good will saves.
Protection from Elements: A very nice spell to have and can be a lifesaver.
Sleep: By the time you get this, enemies have moved on past 5 HD so its kind of a waste.
Snare: A nice, quick way to make a trap, something that can always benefit the party.
Speak with Plants:Like speak with animals, sometimes can be useful but not usually prepared everyday.
Brair Web: Makes entangle even nicer, and with a better save.
Nature's Favor: A nice spell for your animal companions.
Winner:Ranger. The ranger's 2nd level spells are definatley a nice addition to the ranger's abilities.
3rd level Spells:
Paladin:
Cure Moderate Wounds: A shame its not 2nd level, but combined with his lay on hands can keep a paladin in shape.
Discern Lies: Who needs sense motive?
Dispel Magic: A nice one to have, but with a paladin's caster level not very useful. He can use the wands however.
Greater Magic Weapon: At best can get you a +3 bonus, but without a cleric to give you better not bad to have.
Heal Mount: An excellent class oriented spell to keep the bonded mount in top shape.
Magic Circle against Evil: Not as good as teh cleric version, but still good to have.
Prayer:At this level you get it, its a little late, but considering it needs no saving throw its one of the better 3rd level spells.
Remove Blindness/Deafness: Most paladins can get others to do this when they need it, but having it is a bonus.
Ranger:
Control Plants: Not terribly useful, but can be handy.
Diminish Plants: For when you get it, not a good spell.
Greater Magic Fang: Again nice for animal companions, but you can never get it past +3.
Neutralize Poison: Few are going to prepare this.
Plant Growth: Not something a ranger is known for.
Remove Disease: If a ranger is by himself can be handy.
Tree Shape: A great spell for spying purposes.
Water Walk: A spell that can be handy in certain situations.
Bottle of Smoke: Having to hold the bottle sucks, but having an invulnerable mount is very nice.
Animal Reduction: Not usually very useful.
Detect Favored Enemy: It has an incredible range, and does help enhance the favored enemy ability.
Embrace the Wild: Being able to get blindsight or scent is damn nice.
Forestfold: A +20 to hide and move silently is great!!
Winner: Ranger. Both ranger and paladin spells at 3rd level leave something to be desired, but the newest spell for the ranger do give him some definate new advantages.
4th level spells:
Paladin:
Cure Serious Wounds: Healing is healing.
Death Ward: This is absoultely huge. At high levels, your facing death attacks all the time, and this shuts them down completely.
Dispel Evil: Another great spell against evil doers if just for the AC bonus, which is deflection and stacks with most things.
Freedom of Movement: A nice spell in some situations.
Holy Sword: Probably THE paladin spell. Paladin only, and a very powerful spell against evil.
Neutralize Poison: By this time, whatever.
Lesser Aspect of the Deity: Almost Paladin only, gives you a charimsa bonus (but at that level, you probably have magic gicving you that already) and resistances. all in all, kind of weak for such a high level.
Weapon of the Deity: Holy Sword is almost ALWAYS better.
Ranger:
Cure Serious Wounds: Again healing is healing.
Freedom of Movement: As above.
Nondetection: An ability that can be VERY useful in limited situations.
Polymorph Self: This one is very nice, giving you choose over your physical stats, and some healing to boot.
Tree Stride: Its not teleport, but its definately nice.
Wind Wall: Can be very nice.
Winner: Paladin. The paladin has some very specific paladin only spells that are just kick ass and fit the idea of a paladin well.
Advancement:What do you get by continuing in this class.
**This is very rough, just a general idea.
Paladin: Every level: Better smite, more layon hands, BAB.
Every two levels: Better caster level.
Every 3 levels: More remove disease...PER WEEK (I hate that ability). A more powerful level of spell, stronger mount.
AT high levels you get: HOLY SWORD, good healing, a powerful mount, death ward.
Ranger:
Every level: BAB
Every 2 levels: a better animal companion (if you can find one), better caster level.
Every 3 levels: A higher spell level.
Every 5 levels: Another favored enemy.
AT high levels you get: A decent animal companion, a decent bonus against specific creatures, decent skills.
Winner: Paladin. While both classes tend to frontloaded, a paladin still has more to look forward to higher in his carear.
Feats: ARe there feats that really help the class?
Paladin: Some of the divine feats are very powerful for the paladin, and the mounted feats are almost always useful considering the bonded mount.
Ranger: The ranger doesn't get much help here. They get extra favored enemy, which can be nice. They also get favored critical, which is crappy version of improved critical imho.
Winner: Paladin. Those divine feats are really nice, and the mounted stuff was almost made for the paladin.
How do they shine? How do they do when they are supposed to shine.
Paladin: Against evil creatures and undead. WIth smite evil, lay on of hands, spells extrememly effective at hurting evil and undead, turning, and buffing spells, the paladin shines brightly when fighting evil, which happens quite often.
Ranger: As a scout. The ranger skills, combined with various spells, makes the ranger extrememly adept at this. Against his favored enemy. The ranger is supposed to be the master at killing these creatures, yet his small bonus just doesn't have a lot of flair or omph.
Winner: The Paladin. The Paladin is very powerful at doing what he does, while the ranger is good at what he does he doesn't really shine.
Final analysis: This overview has shown me a few things. First of all, that the rangers spells are much better than I realized once I gave them a good follow through. That combined with the other abilites creates a decent class.
The problem seems to be that the ranger never really gets a chance to shine. While the paladin becomes very powerful fighting evil, the ranger never gets that chance to, even against his favored enemy. Also, while the paladin at least gets something every level, something more to work for, the ranger often has to go 2, 3 or even 5 levels to get anything new, and for most PCs that's simply too long to wait. And finally, while the paladin has specific feats, spells, and abilities designed beautifully into his class, the ranger seems to get leftovers.
Let's start the show.
Ranger vs Paladin:
1) Ability Requirements: What stats do you typcially need to be decent in this class?
Ranger: Dex, Str, Wis.
Paladin: Str, Wis, Cha
Winner: Even. Both need the same number of stats. While the Ranger's dex often gives him a lot of advantage with bow combined with his melee style, the Paladin's charisma bonus gives him several advantages.
2) Skills: Whose got more skillz?
Winner: Ranger. Without a doubt the Ranger gets this one. He gets more points, skills, and his skills directly effect what he does.
3) Abilites: What abilities does each character get?
Paladin:
Lay on Hands: A very nice ability for a paladin with decent charisma. While not cure crit wounds, it is nice to have in a pinch, and often gets much better with magic items to enhance charisma.
Aura of Courage: For a fighter type, will saves against fear are a big weakness, and the paladin has this one stopped cold, as well as helping out his allies.
Divine Grace: This is all the save feats rolled into one, with a little extra. This one is great is almost every situation.
Smite: A power weapon against evil enemies, something one tends to encounter a LOT. However, only having it once per day is kind of limiting.
Divine Health: Not something that comes up very often, and when it does, your fort save is often good enough anyway. Not a very powerful ability, but nice to have.
Detect Evil: Considering how much is takes for anyone to get any spell at will, this is a huge ability which means you should never get surprised by evil creatures.
Remove Disease: Having this be your only special ability at higher levels is really crap, its nice to have but its definatley not a high level ability or a particualry good one.
Turn Undead: While the paladin doesn't get turning as soon as the cleric, their very large charisma scores can often make up for that, and I've found that paladins can be near equal to clerics in turning power at low to mid levels.
Ranger:
Favored Enemy: A very weak ability in my opiinoin. While it does give you some benefits on some very important skills, the bonus goes up too little, it is VERY specific, and often very dm dependent, and doesn't work on all types of enemies.
Track: A good bonus feat, since it fits with the rangers style of play. A good ability for first level.
Two Weapon Fighting: For those who say this is just gravvy, its not really part of the ranger, I say that's crap. Everyone's abilities defines what that class can do and what that class represents, and since this is one of THREE abilites a ranger gets (4 if you count the animal compansion), that means it is an integral part of the ranger. Unfortunately, which has been shown in other postings, TWF tends to be weaker than sword/board or large sword at early levels, and doesn't really kick in until your magic weapons go up big time. That's not unbalancing in itself, but considering its one of so few abilites the ranger gets it kind of forces him into that role. While a paladin can go from horseback, to melee, to archery, to mounted archery, all decently well considering his stats, abilities, and armor, while the ranger is stuck with TWF or archery.
Winner: Paladin. His abilites not only are good, but are very defining of what the paladin is. And he has a good range of abilities, so your not reliant on just one. The rangers abilites just don't allow the ranger to stand out....ever.
Companions:
Paladin:
Bonded Mount: The mount is a big part of what defines a paladin. If we consider the mount to be a heavy warhorse (although at later levels it could get better if the DM allows), then you've got a creature with an 18 AC at paladin level 5, much more often with mounted combat and barding, its intelligent, fast, can attack with the paladin, has an emphathic link so it can share some of its knowledge, good hitpoints, and eventually spell resistance. The horse however, is not that useful in dungeons or in cities.
Handle Animal: THe paladin does have handle animal, but with the paladin's limited ranks its rare to use this skill.
Ranger:
Animal Companions: The ranger has much more flexibility in its animal companions. He can have all different types, and often many of them. However, companions tend to get weak at high levels. They have fairly low AC, and are all melee fighters so they don't last long in combat. They also don't have the improved evasion the bonded mount has to avoid spells.
Handle Animal: The ranger can usually have a good amoutn in this skill, increasing his companions in both number and utility. Unfortunately this skill requires a lot of time that some campaigns don't have.
Winner: Undecided. Both classes have companions that fit their classes, and each is strong in its own way.
Spells: How good are there spells, and how does it help the character concept?
Paladin: 1st level spells (limited to PHB and Defenders of Faith)
Bless: A good general spell for the paladin when not going against evil creatures, on the whole not too useful.
Bless Water: By 4 level and higher, 2d4 to an enemy for 25 gp is really bad.
Bless Weapon: A VERY good spell, extremely powerful against evil creatures until you get holy sword. And a paladin only spell, very nice.
Create Water: nice when needed.
Cure light wounds: Added healing is always nice, but without spontaneous casting it susually gets put on the backburner.
Detect Poison: Very unlikely a paladin is going to use this one.
Detect Undead: Since paladin's already have detect evil, not that useful.
Divine Favor: While a paladin at best can get a +3 bonus on this, it being a luck bonus means it will stack with almost everything, a great spell for a combat type.
endure elements: nice when needed
magic Weapon: almost never as good as bless weapon except against DR.
Protect. from Evil: Nice to counter mindcontrol.
Read Magic/Resistance/virtue: not used that much.
Divine Sacrifice: A very nice paladin only spell that fits the idea of a divine matyr like character extremely well. It has great power but also has a cost.
Ranger:
1st Level Spells: (including from Master's of the Wild)
Alarm: In a party not too useful. But for a ranger who is off on his own it can be a lifesaver and fits the ranger concept well.
Animal Friendship: Discussed elsewhere.
Delay Poison: Not something a ranger will typical prepare.
Detect Animals or Plants: Can be useful if hunting game, but otherwise not very useful.
Detect Snares and Pits: This one can be very useful when moving about in the wilderness, if just for the quicksand
Entangle: A great spell when you first get it. Can be very powerful indeed, but tends to lose effectiveness when creatures saves start going up, and there strength comes to the point where a 20 strength check isn't that hard.
Magic Fang: Considering the other spells a ranger could use, not that great.
Pass without Trace: Nice if your hunting, or being hunted.
Read Magic: nice when needed.
Resist Elements: A level 2 spell normally that is level 1 for the ranger is a nice touch. A very useful spell.
Speak with Animals: Its not divination, but sometimes it can be a good spell to have, although not one most are going to prepare often.
Summon Nature Ally I: Considering when you get them, all the summoning spells are crap. There's really not much point in using them, unless you need a flying scout or something.
Animal Trick: not a likely spell to be memorized.
bloodhound: If you wake up knowing your going to be tracking someone, great. Otherwise, not that good.
Camouflage: A very nice spell that fits the ranger profile.
Dawn: An interesting spell but not one a ranger is likely to have handy.
Hawkeye: Another good spell that fits the ranger idea.
Winner: Paladin (barely) this one was a close call. Both Paladin and Ranger have good spells at 1st level for their characters. I went with the paladin, because his spells tend to remain effective at higher levels moreso than the rangers.
2nd Level Spells:
Paladin:
Delay Poison: whatever
Remove Paralysis: If you know your fighting undead that might use this it could come in handy. Otherwise, not that useful.
Resist Elements: The paladin is preety late in getting this spell, although it still remains useful.
Shield Other: Considering a paladin often has a great AC and good hps, this is a great spell to keep your friends alive.
Undetectable Alignment: Doesn't seem to fit the paladin's profile as much, can be handy in an investigation situation however.
Blessed Aim: Can be a very nice spell when conducting a campaign from afar.
Curse of the Brute: it sucks to lose your charisma, and its enhancement bonus which means it won't stack with that much.
Zeal: An interesting spell that helps get through the followers and take on teh leader.
Ranger:
Animal Messenger: For a scout, this can be good to send messages back to base camp.
Cure light wounds: Preety late for this spell, but it does let them use the wands of CLW, and any healing is better than none.
Detect Chaos/.... good to find your enemies.
Hold Animal: A powerful spell against animals, who tend not to have good will saves.
Protection from Elements: A very nice spell to have and can be a lifesaver.
Sleep: By the time you get this, enemies have moved on past 5 HD so its kind of a waste.
Snare: A nice, quick way to make a trap, something that can always benefit the party.
Speak with Plants:Like speak with animals, sometimes can be useful but not usually prepared everyday.
Brair Web: Makes entangle even nicer, and with a better save.
Nature's Favor: A nice spell for your animal companions.
Winner:Ranger. The ranger's 2nd level spells are definatley a nice addition to the ranger's abilities.
3rd level Spells:
Paladin:
Cure Moderate Wounds: A shame its not 2nd level, but combined with his lay on hands can keep a paladin in shape.
Discern Lies: Who needs sense motive?
Dispel Magic: A nice one to have, but with a paladin's caster level not very useful. He can use the wands however.
Greater Magic Weapon: At best can get you a +3 bonus, but without a cleric to give you better not bad to have.
Heal Mount: An excellent class oriented spell to keep the bonded mount in top shape.
Magic Circle against Evil: Not as good as teh cleric version, but still good to have.
Prayer:At this level you get it, its a little late, but considering it needs no saving throw its one of the better 3rd level spells.
Remove Blindness/Deafness: Most paladins can get others to do this when they need it, but having it is a bonus.
Ranger:
Control Plants: Not terribly useful, but can be handy.
Diminish Plants: For when you get it, not a good spell.
Greater Magic Fang: Again nice for animal companions, but you can never get it past +3.
Neutralize Poison: Few are going to prepare this.
Plant Growth: Not something a ranger is known for.
Remove Disease: If a ranger is by himself can be handy.
Tree Shape: A great spell for spying purposes.
Water Walk: A spell that can be handy in certain situations.
Bottle of Smoke: Having to hold the bottle sucks, but having an invulnerable mount is very nice.
Animal Reduction: Not usually very useful.
Detect Favored Enemy: It has an incredible range, and does help enhance the favored enemy ability.
Embrace the Wild: Being able to get blindsight or scent is damn nice.
Forestfold: A +20 to hide and move silently is great!!
Winner: Ranger. Both ranger and paladin spells at 3rd level leave something to be desired, but the newest spell for the ranger do give him some definate new advantages.
4th level spells:
Paladin:
Cure Serious Wounds: Healing is healing.
Death Ward: This is absoultely huge. At high levels, your facing death attacks all the time, and this shuts them down completely.
Dispel Evil: Another great spell against evil doers if just for the AC bonus, which is deflection and stacks with most things.
Freedom of Movement: A nice spell in some situations.
Holy Sword: Probably THE paladin spell. Paladin only, and a very powerful spell against evil.
Neutralize Poison: By this time, whatever.
Lesser Aspect of the Deity: Almost Paladin only, gives you a charimsa bonus (but at that level, you probably have magic gicving you that already) and resistances. all in all, kind of weak for such a high level.
Weapon of the Deity: Holy Sword is almost ALWAYS better.
Ranger:
Cure Serious Wounds: Again healing is healing.
Freedom of Movement: As above.
Nondetection: An ability that can be VERY useful in limited situations.
Polymorph Self: This one is very nice, giving you choose over your physical stats, and some healing to boot.
Tree Stride: Its not teleport, but its definately nice.
Wind Wall: Can be very nice.
Winner: Paladin. The paladin has some very specific paladin only spells that are just kick ass and fit the idea of a paladin well.
Advancement:What do you get by continuing in this class.
**This is very rough, just a general idea.
Paladin: Every level: Better smite, more layon hands, BAB.
Every two levels: Better caster level.
Every 3 levels: More remove disease...PER WEEK (I hate that ability). A more powerful level of spell, stronger mount.
AT high levels you get: HOLY SWORD, good healing, a powerful mount, death ward.
Ranger:
Every level: BAB
Every 2 levels: a better animal companion (if you can find one), better caster level.
Every 3 levels: A higher spell level.
Every 5 levels: Another favored enemy.
AT high levels you get: A decent animal companion, a decent bonus against specific creatures, decent skills.
Winner: Paladin. While both classes tend to frontloaded, a paladin still has more to look forward to higher in his carear.
Feats: ARe there feats that really help the class?
Paladin: Some of the divine feats are very powerful for the paladin, and the mounted feats are almost always useful considering the bonded mount.
Ranger: The ranger doesn't get much help here. They get extra favored enemy, which can be nice. They also get favored critical, which is crappy version of improved critical imho.
Winner: Paladin. Those divine feats are really nice, and the mounted stuff was almost made for the paladin.
How do they shine? How do they do when they are supposed to shine.
Paladin: Against evil creatures and undead. WIth smite evil, lay on of hands, spells extrememly effective at hurting evil and undead, turning, and buffing spells, the paladin shines brightly when fighting evil, which happens quite often.
Ranger: As a scout. The ranger skills, combined with various spells, makes the ranger extrememly adept at this. Against his favored enemy. The ranger is supposed to be the master at killing these creatures, yet his small bonus just doesn't have a lot of flair or omph.
Winner: The Paladin. The Paladin is very powerful at doing what he does, while the ranger is good at what he does he doesn't really shine.
Final analysis: This overview has shown me a few things. First of all, that the rangers spells are much better than I realized once I gave them a good follow through. That combined with the other abilites creates a decent class.
The problem seems to be that the ranger never really gets a chance to shine. While the paladin becomes very powerful fighting evil, the ranger never gets that chance to, even against his favored enemy. Also, while the paladin at least gets something every level, something more to work for, the ranger often has to go 2, 3 or even 5 levels to get anything new, and for most PCs that's simply too long to wait. And finally, while the paladin has specific feats, spells, and abilities designed beautifully into his class, the ranger seems to get leftovers.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Personally I think the low-level ranger spells are nearly useless for the core things that he is going to be doing.
Come up against a gargoyle? better start running, since you don't have magic weapon to give you a chance to hit it.
One of the big bugbears about the Ranger list is that it doesn't have any magic to improve his own fighting capability, while the paladin gets the storming Bless Weapon as a 1st level spell, and can pick up Divine Favour and Magic Weapon too...
I think the Paladin wins out on spells big-time.
Cheers
Come up against a gargoyle? better start running, since you don't have magic weapon to give you a chance to hit it.
One of the big bugbears about the Ranger list is that it doesn't have any magic to improve his own fighting capability, while the paladin gets the storming Bless Weapon as a 1st level spell, and can pick up Divine Favour and Magic Weapon too...
I think the Paladin wins out on spells big-time.
Cheers
Storm Raven
First Post
Caliber said:
For basic rule questions when you don't have your books (like the number of Hit Dice a Dire Bear has), try www.opengamingfoundation.org for the SRD.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Psyduck said:
just a correction...you can attract HD equal to twice your level, but can only adventure with half of that number
Just a correction of the correction (and I'm sorry its me again, I'm not picking on you honest!)
The factor is caster level rather than character level, and for a ranger his caster level = 1/2 his class levels in ranger. Thus a 12th ranger has caster level 6 and can attract 12HD creatures unless he is out adventuring, in which case it is 6HD creatures.
Otherwise called rations...
Plane Sailing said:
Just a correction of the correction (and I'm sorry its me again, I'm not picking on you honest!)
The factor is caster level rather than character level, and for a ranger his caster level = 1/2 his class levels in ranger. Thus a 12th ranger has caster level 6 and can attract 12HD creatures unless he is out adventuring, in which case it is 6HD creatures.
Otherwise called rations...
np. I love to know when I'm wrong
ConcreteBuddha
First Post
Plane Sailing said:
I'm stealing this idea. Mine.
Here's what I came up with...
