Wheel of Time Discussion - Spoilers(with book spoilers)

[Parmandur]

Now that is interesting. Is there a way it could be handled that could get it to GoT level and/or beyond? I haven't read the material, but what I have heard from people is that its unlikely. Im curious what elements are missed in the series?

Less CW shenanigans, IMO. We are talking about stories that had a big crossover appeal in book form including g from a large number of people who didn’t normally read fantasy (the sales on just the last book, that only people who read all the books would get, are enormous), so obviously the material can work for a broad audience if done well.

Some interesting prerelease metrics, st least:

As Amazon Shifts to Big-Budget Bets, ‘The Wheel of Time’ Looks to Break Out Big

Amazon is beefing up its arsenal to fight in the streaming wars. First up: ‘The Wheel of Time.’

observer.com

 

[Mercurius]

Now that is interesting. Is there a way it could be handled that could get it to GoT level and/or beyond? I haven't read the material, but what I have heard from people is that its unlikely. Im curious what elements are missed in the series?

Just interjecting here, one of the reasons that GoT was so popular was the quality of the acting and dialogue. I've only watched one episode of WoT so far, but clearly it is on a completely different (lower) level. That doesn't mean it can't or won't improve, just that GoT started at a much higher level.

Also, as others have said, GoT had "extra-genre" interest, because of its emphasis on political machinations and interesting characters, and the overall strengths of GRRM as a story-teller. Jordan had some strengths, but it as in areas that probably translate better to the page: world-building, epic storytelling, etc.

WoT could be a huge success--I mean, quality is hardly necessary for popularity, and it is certainly above the level of CW/Shannara--but I think it will take a bit of time, and it is far too soon to make a definitive statement (and iirc, GoT didn't really take off for a few seasons).

 

[Demetrios1453]

Less CW shenanigans, IMO. We are talking about stories that had a big crossover appeal in book form including g from a large number of people who didn’t normally read fantasy (the sales on just the last book, that only people who read all the books would get, are enormous), so obviously the material can work for a broad audience if done well.

Some interesting prerelease metrics, st least:

As Amazon Shifts to Big-Budget Bets, ‘The Wheel of Time’ Looks to Break Out Big

Amazon is beefing up its arsenal to fight in the streaming wars. First up: ‘The Wheel of Time.’

observer.com

The WoT subreddits are also reporting it was the most pirated show last week as per a website that tracks that sort of thing

(This post does not condone pirating, just reporting on the facts)

 

[Parmandur]

Just interjecting here, one of the reasons that GoT was so popular was the quality of the acting and dialogue. I've only watched one episode of WoT so far, but clearly it is on a completely different (lower) level. That doesn't mean it can't or won't improve, just that GoT started at a much higher level.

Also, as others have said, GoT had "extra-genre" interest, because of its emphasis on political machinations and interesting characters, and the overall strengths of GRRM as a story-teller. Jordan had some strengths, but it as in areas that probably translate better to the page: world-building, epic storytelling, etc.

WoT could be a huge success--I mean, quality is hardly necessary for popularity, and it is certainly above the level of CW/Shannara--but I think it will take a bit of time, and it is far too soon to make a definitive statement (and iirc, GoT didn't really take off for a few seasons).

Robert Jordan had a certain gift for character, but worse for any adaptation his real gift was in depicting the interiority of the characters which really doesn't translate to the visual medium straightforwardly. The major change to Perrin's character with his wife and the axe is pretty obviously an attempt to exteriorize a purely interior and emotional struggle from the books.

 

[Parmandur]

The WoT subreddits are also reporting it was the most pirated show last week as per a website that tracks that sort of thing

(This post does not condone pirating, just reporting on the facts)

I mean, that's actually good for the show, insofar as pirated viewership tracks pretty proportionally with legit viewrship IIRC.

 

[Demetrios1453]

I mean, that's actually good for the show, insofar as pirated viewership tracks pretty proportionally with legit viewrship IIRC.

Yep, that's exactly what I was getting at.

 

[Parmandur]

Some numbers here:

The Wheel Of Time (Amazon Prime Video): United States daily TV audience insights for smarter content decisions - Parrot Analytics

The Wheel Of Time United States tv ratings and audience insights for Amazon Prime Video's Fantasy Drama series based on US demand data from Parrot Analytics for television executives. Includes audience growth rate, affinity and television ratings (market multiple) based on demand data.

tv.parrotanalytics.com

 

[Mercurius]

Robert Jordan had a certain gift for character, but worse for any adaptation his real gift was in depicting the interiority of the characters which really doesn't translate to the visual medium straightforwardly. The majority change to Perrin's character with his wife and the axe is pretty obviously an attempt to exteriorize a purely interior and emotional struggle from the books.

It has been too long since I read one of his books (about 25 years) to agree or disagree on his characters, but I do remember being immersed and liking his characterization, for the most part. One of his well-known weaknesses was the saminess of his females, all sort of Polgara variants (and the infamous tugging of braids), but that is hardly unusual for male writers.

But I do think that GoT--both the books and show--had unusually good characters, and Martin had a rather potent cleverness with dialogue. It sets a pretty high bar, one I don't think WoT will meet, but nor does it need to, to be entertaining and successful.

Based upon just one episode, though, I'm reasonably confident that they won't make the mistake of trying to copy GoT, which also gives me hope for the Middle-earth series. One common writing advice I see is that as a writer, don't worry about current trends, or what is or is not popular. Write what you love, and do it as well as you can. I think this is true for TV series, not only because when you try to copy something, you'll almost always fall short and even look silly doing so, but also because fads are always changing.

Genres also don't tend to narrow, but expand. Meaning, any trend or popular sub-genre doesn't as much set the course of the genre, as it does expand it to include that avenue as a viable sub-genre. Twilight didn't kill horror or make it only about sexy vampires (at least not for more than a few years), and GoT didn't make fantasy focused only on grim-and-grittiness.

 

[Maxperson]

It has been too long since I read one of his books (about 25 years) to agree or disagree on his characters, but I do remember being immersed and liking his characterization, for the most part. One of his well-known weaknesses was the saminess of his females, all sort of Polgara variants (and the infamous tugging of braids), but that is hardly unusual for male writers.

I don't agree with that. Lanfear was different from Elaida who was different from Liandran, who was different from Moiraine who was different from Siuan. And so on. The braid tugging did get old, but the characters of the women were very different.

 

[Parmandur]

I don't agree with that. Lanfear was different from Elaida who was different from Liandran, who was different from Moiraine who was different from Siuan. And so on. The braid tugging did get old, but the characters of the women were very different.

The braid tugging is down more to Jordan's interest in small details that a more pro writer, like Sanderson or Martin, might not dwell on. Jordan's stated influences were all 19th century authors, and sometimes it shows.