D&D 5E When Did 5E Peak Quality Wise?

[mamba]

Since the upcoming WotC books are clearly based on the post-Tasha's game, what makes you think the peak is still ahead? Or are you talking about non-WotC? In that case, I heartily agree with you.

I guess the first question is why I did not like Tasha's. I have no problem with getting rid of racial bonuses. I do feel it had power creep and offered very little I found interesting. The adventures after it also were not interesting to me, so it works pretty well as the turning point. I like the monster reworking in Monsters of the Multiverse, but that was a rehash of existing material and the exception, so it does not change where the peak was.

I do think the 2024 MM and DMG will basically be all-around improvements to their 2014 versions, and as far as the PHB is concerned, I like more of the changes than not. Homogenizing the different classes is a plus in my book.

When it comes to 3pp, the future is definitely bright, never was there more material to choose from and with Kobold Press and Cubicle 7 having announced their own versions, there is even more to choose from.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Probably Ravenloft. I can't think of one must have product since then. Maybe Icewind Dale but it was such a mess.

It could have been Dragonlance but WotC didn't want to put forth the effort.

 

[Zardnaar]

This is hard to quantify because I absolutely loved Tasha and the changes it brought to the game. But it was the keystone for a trend of releasing faux errata and not just going back and changing the existing content. Mordenkainen's Monsters of the Multiverse piled on, once again not going back to change the original content but adding more faux errata.

I understand WHY they made the choice to leave the original content alone and just introduce more modals, but I would much rather have a more streamlined game with fully updated content in the core books so a new player can buy the books and be up to date with the rest of the table. Leave the old versions as downloadables, and darn the consequences!

Tasha for me I'd when they jumped the shark. Power creep and soft errata.

 

[overgeeked]

About halfway through Tasha’s. Some of it’s great and some of it’s trash.

 

[Zardnaar]

For me, the cutoff point of "All the books here play nice together" is right at the end of Mythic Odysseys of Theros. Theros was a crunchy book with new, interesting mechanics that worked with the underlying design philosophy of 5E (the Piety system and Mythic monsters). There were some key rules the designers respected (non-Warlock spellcasters don't get spell save DC increasing items, not all ability scores are created equal - a Dex bonus is more valuable than an Int bonus -, abilities are keyed either off of 1/short rest or key score/long rest etc.) that kept the game balanced.

Tasha's Cauldron Everything brought a silent change in game design philosophy that, IMO, has led to powercreep. Don't get me wrong, I think Tasha's had some great inclusions. The Ranger fix was great, the Sorcerer subclasses introduced a buff that should have been retrofitted to all past Sorcerer subclasses in the form of spell lists, and the flavour in almost all of the subclasses were great. That said, most of the new content was clearly overtuned, and the pattern has continued since then (maybe with the exception of the 1D&D Druid). The Peace and Twilight clerics were busted (and I've personally seen how the Twilight cleric trivialises dungeon exploration in actual play), the X/Proficiency Bonus paradigm silently buffed multiclass characters (as if the busted multiclass combos needed more juice), Rogues got the ability to gain advantage every turn with Take Aim... To me, it felt like the game's underlying assumptions changed, and the new game design paradigm was more "whiteroom" and did not account for some very real variables old design considered (Tasha's DC increasing items are the big culprit here, just see Matt Mercer rue the day he gave Scanlan the Handcone of Clarity to see why that's a bad idea).

That said, Tasha's also removed racial ability scores, and while I still think Tasha's bandaid solution wasn't ideal, it was something that needed to be done. I'm happy that that debate is settled in the 5E community, and I'm happy with the Culture/Heritage combo Level Up came up with in the end (with the ability bonuses being relegated to backgrounds).

Since Tasha's, I just can't trust that anything Wizards releases will be properly balanced for my game. The Great Wyrm dragons in Fizban's are undertuned for their massive CR and mythic status. Spells like Silvery Barbs are overpowered for their spell level. OneD&D needlessly standardises things like tool costs and each background giving exactly one tool and one language proficiency. The game just hasn't gone in a direction where the books are actually that useful to me beyond serving as inspiration (and then requiring tons of homebrewing). Currently, Level Up seems to scratch my itch far better. I'm still interested in what OneD&D will bring as well as the Planescape book, but to me, the high point of 5E ended with the release of the Theros book.

There's was after Eberron? I forget the exact release order.

 

[Velderan]

For me, it was around the time I realized Googling "Jeremy Crawford Twitter" and a topic I wanted a rule clarification on was unfortunately a completely legitimate way of looking for rule clarifications on what's printed in the book.

 

[Umbran]

I have been having more fun with 5e than ever before, so... now.

 

[Bacon Bits]

Tasha's. It gave me solutions for a number of different issues, and felt like it genuinely improved the game. Though I do think custom lineages from that book are terrible for powergaming.

Everything that's come out since has made me disappointed more than anything. The new structure for books isn't bad in theory, but it feels like they've made that change and then trimmed the meat and left the fat. The final straw was all the business stuff with WotC and Hasbro, including stuff with Magic. The whole OGL thing sparked the kindling that disappointment had stoked. It resulted in our whole table feeling discouraged to the point of wanting to play any other game, which we have done since February.

I'm not even sure what we will do when the new playtest docs come out.

 

[Weiley31]

Xanathar's, Tasha's, And the good 3PP content, such as Exploring Eberron.

 

[S'mon]

IMO It peaked at Xanathar's.

I think Xanathar's was the peak, definitely better than the 5e DMG; although as an Indian Summer I did like the Essentials Kit box set. WoTC adventures and settings were never good compared to the better 3PP stuff, their monster books after the MM were mediocre, and Tasha's made clear they had completely lost their way re mechanics/crunch. Fizban's was so awful - and I paid full price for it - I've generally avoided WoTC stuff since, though I did pick up Tasha's when I saw it on Amazon for £13.

Edit: For 3PP so far, hm, probably the 2015 5e version of the Primeval Thule Campaign Setting - though I do like Odyssey of the Dragonlords a lot. Kobold Press's 12 Peculiar Towers is great. And of course my friend Kimberly Pauley's amazing The Tales Were True will be a new peak, whenever it comes out. I like my 5e Barrowmaze campaign a lot, but the 5e conversion is so weak it doesn't really feel any different from running a Labyrinth Lord or OSRIC adventure & converting on the fly.