Where the hell is my d20 muse?

[Wulf Ratbane]

Anybody got a good reason for me to do some writing today?

I bought Ronin Arts' Fantastic Stunts PDF-- and don't get me wrong, it's good stuff-- but it didn't fire me up (as a designer) the way I'd hoped. I really wanted to... err... plunder it.

I sat down last night to write "super" versions of every feat that you can activate with an action point. Not new feats, not "stunts" per se, but ways to "break the laws" of the feats you already have.

So if you already have the feat, you can spend an action point to really milk it when you need it:

Quick Example #1: Alertness. Spend an action point and your Spot or Listen check is a 20.

Quick Example #2: Blind-Fight. Spend an action point and you don't have to roll for a miss chance at all on one attack. You just nail him.

Quick Example #3: Cleave. Spend an action point, and you can use Cleave if you exceed your target's Massive Damage Threshold (ie, you don't have to drop him, just slice him good and hard). I thought that was pretty cool.

And then realized I was really flogging the hell out of the concept. (See, I made it all the way up to "C".) Does anybody need or want that many options on their character sheet?

Maybe it's cause I got to "Dodge" and realized, "Man, there's no way to make this feat not suck, not even as a super feat. It's just super suck."

I just didn't feel like the feats/stunts/super-feats/whatever you want to call them were expanding the rules in new directions.

Little help...?

 

[GlassJaw]

Anybody got a good reason for me to do some writing today?

When do you have time to write at all? I know you have a dayjob and it's poker night. Where does writing fit in?

Does anybody need or want that many options on their character sheet?

That's kind of how I feel with new mechanics in general. Most of the supplements for d20 are extremely mechanics-heavy. The products I've liked the most lately have new mechanics but they are tied to a specific setting.

For example, I love Skull & Bones and Conan d20. Both have some new classes, feats, magic systems, whatever, but they both have a specific setting and goal in mind. They are both using the mechanics to acheive a specific feel for their respective campaign settings. My point: I don't think changing or adding new mechanics for the sake of change is necessarily good.

I just didn't feel like the feats/stunts/super-feats/whatever you want to call them were expanding the rules in new directions.

Expanding the rules and providing more options are two different things. "More" does not necessarily equal "good". I get that vibe a lot when I look at new products. I definitely think it's the mantra some d20 designers adhere to though. I have more mechanics and options than I know what to do with.

I've been toying with some ideas that really change the d20 system at its core rather than just creating some new feats or prestige classes. I've got some ideas if you want to listen.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

When do you have time to write at all? I know you have a dayjob and it's poker night. Where does writing fit in?

Lately, between the hours of about 10:00 PM and 2:00 AM-- usually with some online poker going on as well. Multi-tasking.

Day job sure is sucking lately, too. What I really need is a monkey to offload some of this work on.

I've got some ideas if you want to listen.

Kinda why I started this thread.

So I take it you're in agreement I should s*can the super-action-feats?

Rebuttal? Anybody get the feeling there's anything to save there?

 

[JimAde]

I had an idea, then saw it posted elsewhere and think it might actually be published (so take with a grain of salt):

Spend an action point to gain 1 round's use of a feat you don't have, but do qualify for.

Much less writing and makes your character pretty "super". Plus it fits in with that comic-book effect of a character using a power in a certain way once and then never doing it again. He didn't really have the feat, he was just "faking it" with an action point.

My apologies if this is a known feature of some system, just trying to help out.

 

[GlassJaw]

Lately, between the hours of about 10:00 PM and 2:00 AM-- usually with some online poker going on as well. Multi-tasking.

Wow. So do you take naps at work? I've always said if you could eliminate the need for sleep and/or the human instinct to reporudce, you could probably rule the world. Looks like you're halfway there.

Anybody get the feeling there's anything to save there?

Well I definitely don't think it's a bad idea. As a consumer, I would probably take a look and maybe even spend a couple of bucks on a pdf. But after the initial read, it would probably get stored on my hard drive along with all the other pdf's I have.

I think one of the great things about the GT AP system is its simplicity and speed. Every GT game I've played in, the players always love the AP system. More options for AP's isn't necessarily a high priority for me - one man's opinion.

Even with the feats you listed, you could simplify it dramatically by adding some general options for AP's. For example, you could say "Spend an AP to take 20 on any of your core skills (or skills that are modified by a feat) or take 10 on any skill that normally doesn't allow it." That takes care of all the skill-based feats.

 

[DanMcS]

And then realized I was really flogging the hell out of the concept. (See, I made it all the way up to "C".) Does anybody need or want that many options on their character sheet?

Maybe it's cause I got to "Dodge" and realized, "Man, there's no way to make this feat not suck, not even as a super feat. It's just super suck."

I just didn't feel like the feats/stunts/super-feats/whatever you want to call them were expanding the rules in new directions.

Little help...?

First, I assume you've seen the action point rules in Unearthed Arcana, that list a bunch of ways to use action points to improve your use of feats? It might give you ideas, or it might convince you to scrap it since it's already been done.

Anyway, it depends on how over-the-top you want your feat/action point combos to be. For instance:

Action Dodge: You may spend an action point to cause one attack from your dodge target to miss.

Action Weapon Focus: When you spend an action point for an attack roll using a weapon you have weapon focus in, roll d10s for your action point rather than d6s.

Action Greater Weapon Focus: As above, but d12s.

Action Weapon Finess: Spend an action point to resolve your attack with a finessable weapon as a touch attack.

I went farther than this, and made some high-powered feats that you need action points to activate; I have no problem treating action points as the luck/heroic magic pool of a hero.

For instance:
Pierce Spell (Dex 23, Int 23, a bunch of parry feats that aren't worth repeating here)
As a standard action, you may spend an action point to make an attack roll versus a spell or magical effect. Your attack roll acts as a dispel magic check (roll versus DC 11+ caster level to dispel the effect).

 

[DanMcS]

I had an idea, then saw it posted elsewhere and think it might actually be published (so take with a grain of salt):

Spend an action point to gain 1 round's use of a feat you don't have, but do qualify for.

In Unearthed Arcana, that's listed as a use of an action point. I don't think it's included in Eberron or d20 modern, though.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

In Unearthed Arcana, that's listed as a use of an action point. I don't think it's included in Eberron or d20 modern, though.

Yep, correct; I've covered this one off by adding it to the document I'm currently working on.

I'll take another look at UA though.


Wulf

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I'm kinda torn. On the one hand, I like options and choices and differences. On the other, I love how GT lets me tweak with the rules without increasing the complexity. Something optional to the core feat shouldn't pose too much of a problem -- it becomes something the player has to remember, sure, but most don't have so many feats that it should be a problem.

I'd like to see them be more along the lines of 'succeed and get a chance to do something cool' than 'add a power' though. Something like:

Alertness

Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Listen checks and Spot checks.
Special: The master of a familiar gains the benefit of the Alertness feat whenever the familiar is within arm’s reach.
Optional: On a successful Spot or Listen check to avoid being surprised, you may spend an action point to act first during the Surprise Round (with all normal restrictions and benefits).

Straight up 'add +X' type stuff is boring. Getting to thunk an arrow into the throat of your would-be ambusher before he can even move is cool.

 

[GlassJaw]

it depends on how over-the-top you want your feat/action point combos to be

Exactly. I think most of the feats you listed are very over-the-top. As a player, I probably would never spend a feat slot on one of those. That's just me.

And nevermind making an AP option for every feat - you could probably make 2 or 3 AP options for each one and then create some feats solely based on AP's as well!! IMO it's too much.

The great thing about the GT AP system is it's simplicity. It's fast and easy to use. I'm really not a fan of altering game mechanics to incorporate AP's. I think AP's should be above and beyond specific feats and skills. They should be universal.

But I don't think Wulf necessarily intended to start a discussion on AP's specifically. Sounds like he has a bit of writer's block.