white wolfs new Vampire: The Requiem

[Styracosaurus]

I see no reason why D20 couldn't handle WoD. Storyteller influenced my style, but the dice pools just beat me down. For me, d20 gets to the point. I use Vampire as a guideline for following an ethos (for a paladin or cleric). The werewolf game really helped to work out alignment issues for me.

The virtues and vices, humanity and such things would be good for D20. Alot of people seem to want a system of honor, insanity, etc......

 

[JesterPoet]

Make them learn it?

I know how I would feel if a GM tried to MAKE me learn a system.

Bad plan.

Pitch it to them, yes. If they don't wanna play, it's been my experience that forcing this issue is a formula for disaster (or at least, unsatisfying play.)

Well, it depends I guess. If I were the GM, and I wanted to run Vampire instead of D&D or something I'd probably tell people I was going to run it. But I have a pretty flexible group, so it isn't an issue.

If they wanted to play, but were insisting that I convert it to d20 before running it, I'd tell them to run it themselves, or learn the new system.

But as far as opinions go, I figure the GM has more sway. The GM is usually putting more work into the game than the players, so the GM calls the game.

 

[Nightchilde-2]

For the record, and I know nobody asked my opinion really, but here it is anyway, I am completely against a conversion to d20. I would no more convert VtR to d20 than I would convert D&D to Storytelling.

And for those of you pointing at Exalted and saying "That's D&D converted to the Storyteller system," you've obviously not played Exalted much.

IMHo, conversions like that suck the soul right out of the game. I point you to Deadlands d20. Deadlands Classic is beautiful. Deadlands d20 is..well..crap.

I, for one, can't stand conversions. For me, part of the game, and what that game means, IS the system. I can't think of a single conversion that I thought was as good as the original.

 

[Psion]

Well, it depends I guess. If I were the GM, and I wanted to run Vampire instead of D&D or something I'd probably tell people I was going to run it. But I have a pretty flexible group, so it isn't an issue.

If they wanted to play, but were insisting that I convert it to d20 before running it, I'd tell them to run it themselves, or learn the new system.

But as far as opinions go, I figure the GM has more sway. The GM is usually putting more work into the game than the players, so the GM calls the game.

I think I could run any game I wanted. My group pretty much trusts me.

In fact, I wanted to run spycraft. But one player didn't like our trial run. I don't think his reasons were good, but I didn't run it again so long as he was in our group. I wanted him to enjoy what he was doing and I thought that one player could bring the rest of the game down.

A different story for traveller. I proposed it and was not greeted with too much excitement. But I found an angle and got them to embrace it.

Very much of game play is about emotion, and I beleive to get the most out of a game, you have to have a group that embraces what you are doing.

 

[Truth Seeker]

Differences...

For the record, and I know nobody asked my opinion really, but here it is anyway, I am completely against a conversion to d20. I would no more convert VtR to d20 than I would convert D&D to Storytelling.

And for those of you pointing at Exalted and saying "That's D&D converted to the Storyteller system," you've obviously not played Exalted much.

IMHo, conversions like that suck the soul right out of the game. I point you to Deadlands d20. Deadlands Classic is beautiful. Deadlands d20 is..well..crap.

I, for one, can't stand conversions. For me, part of the game, and what that game means, IS the system. I can't think of a single conversion that I thought was as good as the original.

You are not alone in that assestment, as a former player of WOD, from its heyday (first appearance), the system was easy to learn, and nearly every dice roll was base on the D10 die...made it great, damage was not broken down by different rates, skills either, and so on, and so on.

I think in some part, others have become 'spoiled' *a general view, not a fact* on the D20 band wagon, and yes begin a player of that dice system for years, well....hmmm, lets' just say, I have rolled D20 more in my life. It can be pleasant and scary, when you have to use a differerent mindset for a whole different system of play.

I have played with games, that used a D6, I didn't complain, just adapted, I think the underline 'problem' is, that people feel 'safe' in the comfort zone of a dice they have known for quite some time and using a secondary die as a main for another system, will give an 'alien' feel to it...

And lastily, I would rather that WOD stay with it's 'unique' dice system, for one reason only, the differences of style to play another game system, is always a challenge to any player, and as a player, meeting that gauntlet, is a true testament of any gamer to grow and learn new things.

But this is an incomplete path, the only way, it can work, is that the DM and players are willing to go the extra mile to explore the new boundaries.

Yes, I know that D20 will make things simple for many, but as for flavor with this setting, a lot of things can be losted in the translation.

The idea and the work put into it....has to be respected at some point.

Okay...that will be enough from me...

 

[JesterPoet]

Crud... I had a really good, long reply to Truth Seeker, Nightchilde-2 and Psion that got swallowed by the ENWorld gremlins...

Here's the short version:

Psion: I see what you're getting at. I have a good group who loves to try new stuff, so I guess I don't really understand it since it isn't a problem for me.

Truth Seeker/NightChilde: I agree fully. I would also add 7th Sea to the list of games ruined by conversions.

 

[Henry]

Getting back to the New World of Darkness a second, what is it about combat that makes it so "quick and deadly" as someone has put it? Is there a short combat example that can be pointed to, or could someone draft a typical example of combat under the new system?

The reason I ask is that Dice pooling in storyteller in the past put me off murderously by being slower than D&D, even in its AD&D 2nd edition version. Are there any smooth-overs that make the experience noticably different now?

 

[Barastrondo]

Getting back to the New World of Darkness a second, what is it about combat that makes it so "quick and deadly" as someone has put it? Is there a short combat example that can be pointed to, or could someone draft a typical example of combat under the new system?

The reason I ask is that Dice pooling in storyteller in the past put me off murderously by being slower than D&D, even in its AD&D 2nd edition version. Are there any smooth-overs that make the experience noticably different now?

An attack is handled by one roll. In the old Storyteller system, it was an attack roll, a dodge roll if the defender opts, then if you hit, you roll damage, then the opponent rolls to soak damage.

In the new Storytelling system (yes, the name changed for the purpose of differentiating), it's one roll. After you take into account any modifiers of opponent dodging or armor or whatever, you make one attack roll, and the successes count as damage. If you don't get any successes (which, I should point out, are always at a fixed number: 8, 9 or 10), you missed, or grazed them, or whatever. It's a somewhat more abstract system, but it is indeed much quicker. In the in-house playtests, we could get through one-on-one duels with lightning speed, make a few adjustments for a different situation, and go again.

 

[Henry]

Oh, heck, yeah. I can see that - compared to that level of abstraction, d20 is rocket science! I like it! Makes me think something similar would work for Shadowrun.

Is order determined by dots in agility, or some such? Or has that changed?

 

[Wormwood]

Is there a short combat example that can be pointed to, or could someone draft a typical example of combat under the new system?

It ain't short but it's pretty illuminating.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=142880

Today's lesson: Neo was a bad-ass.