white wolfs new Vampire: The Requiem

[Malacoda]

The new World of Darkness and Vampire the Requiem are beautiful, brilliant books (IMHO, of course). The system is flexible, streamlined and VERY easy to learn.

Tons easier than d20. Seriously.

I wouldn't call the new Storyteller "tons" easier than the core of d20, overall. The new system has added a lot more complication and specific rules to almost all aspects of the game. The primary exception is combat, but even it isn't quite in the "very simple" category.

Either way, "easy" and "good" does not always correlate for everyone. I didn't like the old system, and while I like the new system better, I still don't really like it much overall. I really dislike rolling handfuls of dice for everything.

This is why I would consider converting Vampire over to d20. I think Vampire would convert just fine, if done properly. Werewolf probably would as well. If the new Mage system of magick is anything like the old, then converting that over would be much more difficult.

 

[Malacoda]

For the record, and I know nobody asked my opinion really, but here it is anyway, I am completely against a conversion to d20. I would no more convert VtR to d20 than I would convert D&D to Storytelling.

I have heard of a number of people using the old ST system for games in D&D settings, such as FR and Planescape. I am certain there will be people who pick up the new WoD rulebook and go that direction.

IMHO, conversions like that suck the soul right out of the game. I point you to Deadlands d20. Deadlands Classic is beautiful. Deadlands d20 is..well..crap.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, but I feel you chose an awful example. Most everyone feels d20 Deadlands was the cream of the crap. But I have seen a ton of folks online who loved d20 Call of Cthulhu.

I, for one, can't stand conversions. For me, part of the game, and what that game means, IS the system. I can't think of a single conversion that I thought was as good as the original.

And that's fine. Myself, I don't attach the rules to the setting in the same way, unless the rules have a lot of setting specific rules that are hard to replicate. I don't feel Vampire really has any such rules. Nor did the old version of Werewolf. But, as I mentioned previously, I would come closer to agreeing with you on Mage: the Ascension.

To me, the soul of Vampire is their nature, their society, their struggles, their politics, their supernatural abilities and the world they live in, and helped create. The soul of Vampire is not "To strike with a melee weapon the attacker rolls Strength + Weaponry + equipment bonus." It is not handfuls of d10s.

 

[Chaos Drake]

Checked it out this weekend and have to say they're gorgeous looking. Unfortunately, my playing time is occupied by d20 stuff. Just too much material out there.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Most everyone feels d20 Deadlands was the cream of the crap. (emphasis mine)

I have nothing to add. I just had to chime in and say that this may qualify as Typo of the Month, if not the year.

 

[Malacoda]

I have nothing to add. I just had to chime in and say that this may qualify as Typo of the Month, if not the year.

Oh, that was no typo, sir. No typo at all.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Oh, that was no typo, sir. No typo at all.

Can't tell if you're kidding. If you're not, then it qualifies as Subtle Comment of the Month.

I hope you're kidding, though. It's cooler as a typo.

 

[Wormwood]

My group ran a quick VtR session on Thursday, and I've got a couple of concerns about the system.

My main complaint is that it seems pretty hard to actually fail at anything. I'm talking about starting characters with 5 or 6 dice in their pools. Everyone hit what they were aiming at, every social roll worked, etc.

The phenomenon was even more striking once the social Disciplines came into play (dominate and nightmare---which is quite potent). Only 1 failed roll all night.

Don't get me wrong, I likje the core nWoD rulebook and I wish the game-line success. I just wonder if I was doing something wrong.

 

[jollyninja]

the new wod book is phenominal, i didn't play a lot of vtm before buying the book (as in i joined a group about a month ago) but it addressed all my major concerns with the system in general. botching when i had a big dice pool more often then the small ones fundamentally bothered me and constantly asking "what's my target number?" was a bit irritating. i like the streamlined combat to a certian degree but the opposed rolls in combat was nice as well. completely changing the background information (or at least not making it quite so known) makes me far more likely to buy future products because it frees a gm to have different styles of vampires running around with more believability. i will use the system to run something at some point and wow would it ever work for shadowrun. as far as horror goes, i can't see d20 working without turning the game into an "evil dead" series style game where the main characters can take an incredible ammount of punishment and only really suffer horrible injury as a plot device. so i would vote a resounding no on the d20 issue. to make things feel the same you would fundamentally change the d20 mechanis so much that you might as well be learning a new system anyway.

 

[Malacoda]

as far as horror goes, i can't see d20 working without turning the game into an "evil dead" series style game where the main characters can take an incredible ammount of punishment and only really suffer horrible injury as a plot device.

There is no reason a d20 game need use the skyrocketing hit points of D&D.

 

[Malacoda]

My main complaint is that it seems pretty hard to actually fail at anything. I'm talking about starting characters with 5 or 6 dice in their pools. Everyone hit what they were aiming at, every social roll worked, etc.

The phenomenon was even more striking once the social Disciplines came into play (dominate and nightmare---which is quite potent). Only 1 failed roll all night.

It is interesting that you say this, as I was wondering about it as I was reading over the Disciplines in Requiem. It often seems you are rolling large pools of dice, since most seem to be Stat + Skill + Discipline levels. So a Stat 4 + Skill 4 + Discipline 2 is 10 dice. These are often contested rolls, but they seem to be against very low dice pools, such as just the Resolve of the target.

I like that you are adding your level in the Discipline (a la Wraith Arcanos), but it does seem to be rather generous.

Edit: I went back and looked over the Disciplines after I wrote this, and saw that many mental Disciplines add the opponent's Blood Potency to the roll, which helps, but as most beginning vampires are likely to be dealing with relatively weak vampires, I think the rolls are in favor of the initiator, rather than the target, if they are at all "optimized" towards their Disciplines.