D&D General Who Invents Spells, and How Old Are They

[doctorbadwolf]

In another thread, @Faolyn said the following, in an exchange about how old spells are, when I asked what makes them think that all unnamed spells are old:

Through omission--there's no general lore (that I'm aware of) that talks about unnamed spells being developed or invented. Who invented magic missile or polymorph, and when? Were there similar spells used beforehand but are now mostly ignored? Did early casters develop the weakest spells and only later on make them powerful, or did they start with raw but untamed and very powerful magic and had to refine it into weaker but more controllable and reliable spells? There's nothing that addresses this, as far as I know. At most, it's some god of spellcraft or wizardry created the spells, and there's not one of those in every setting.

Now, I don't really see the rationale, here, so I'd love to have a discussion about the topic.

To me, the lack of a spell originator in canon lore for a given spell tells us nothing about it. It certainly doesn't tell us that it's an old spell. At most, it tells us that it isn't strongly associated with a specific famous spellcaster. It's always been fairly normal, IME, to consider PC spellcasters, especially but not exclusively wizards, to be the inventors of some of their spells.

But this raises interesting questions. How do the DMs of these forums treat the following questions:

Who invented the common spells?

How old are they?

Do you give players input on these questions?

 

[Atomoctba]

In the 2e era, the series of Arcane Era of Forgotten Realms (essentially the time of Netheryl), there was a book that give the years many spells were invented in that setting. Because then Mystril (today Mystra) forbidden time travelers to cast spells yet not invented.

 

[Atomoctba]

Double checked. Netheril: Empire of Magic boxed set. I still have mine, lol.

The campaign book, page 29, has a table "Spell Introduction by Year"

 

[dave2008]

I've never thought about, but it is an interesting question. Thank you for asking! I think @EzekielRaiden' s answer seems pretty good. However, I now I want a book of spells with detail lore for each spell. That sounds interesting.

 

[Atomoctba]

I've never thought about, but it is an interesting question. Thank you for asking! I think @EzekielRaiden' s answer seems pretty good. However, I know I want a book of spells with detail lore for each spell. That sounds interesting.

The same book I cited tells who invented the spell in Netheril. For example, magic missile was originally General Matick's missile and was invented by him on 2268 Netherese Year.

 

[dave2008]

The same book I cited tells who invented the spell in Netheril. For example, magic missile was originally General Matick's missile and was invented by him on 2268 Netherese Year.

That is a step, but I am talking about a true lore book. About a page or half page on each spell telling a story about the origin, creation, and casting of the spell.

 

[Atomoctba]

That is a step, but I am talking about a true lore book. About a page or half page on each spell telling a story about the origin, creation, and casting of the spell.

It would be interesting for sure. The problem, I see, is that each spell would have many origins, one for setting: in Forgotten, it was invented when... In Eberron, when..., In Cerilia, when..., In Dragonlance, when...

 

[Maxperson]

In another thread, @Faolyn said the following, in an exchange about how old spells are, when I asked what makes them think that all unnamed spells are old:




Now, I don't really see the rationale, here, so I'd love to have a discussion about the topic.

To me, the lack of a spell originator in canon lore for a given spell tells us nothing about it. It certainly doesn't tell us that it's an old spell. At most, it tells us that it isn't strongly associated with a specific famous spellcaster. It's always been fairly normal, IME, to consider PC spellcasters, especially but not exclusively wizards, to be the inventors of some of their spells.

But this raises interesting questions. How do the DMs of these forums treat the following questions:

Who invented the common spells?

How old are they?

Do you give players input on these questions?

With regard to the Forgotten Realms, back in 2e there was a product called Netheril: Empire of Magic and it was played 5000 years in the past. Fireball and all the other PHB spells were there, but many, if not all of them were named.

Aksa's Disintigrate
Aksa's Shatter
Carbury's Mouth
Carbury's Servant
Dethed's Death Finger

And so on. Going by that the PHB spells are pretty old.

 

[Reynard]

It gets to the fundamental question of what magic spells are, what wizards are, and how much or little like science magic is in any given D&D world. Is there a big library somewhere with all the spells ever developed? Do wizards go to not-Hogwarts and that's why they all know all the same spells? Are spells (generally) easy and safe to cast because they have been tested and tweaked for centuries?

Personally, I think it would be fun if all spells were unique to specific casters. If you gathered up a bunch of 3PP magic books you could probably do it, too. Every wizard and warlock manipulates the forces of "magic" in their own way and creates their own spells. Throw in some sort of spell check and failure consequence and it would feel very different from regular D&D magic without necessarily screwing up the balance of things (and maybe balance out casters a little bit). It's probably too much, but it is fun to think about.

 

[Hriston]

Since spellcasting in D&D is based on The Dying Earth, I would default as a DM to its presentation in that book for any setting details I introduce related to the origins of spells. I.e. that the known spells were discovered and invented over the course of history through scientific experimentation and mathematics. Of course, if a player with a spellcasting PC has different ideas about the origins of their spells, then I'm more than happy to defer to them.