Who's happy about MMV being MMIV again?

[Felon]

I liked MMIV a lot. But I say if they're going to restrict classed monsters to the likes of iconic creatures like gnolls, drow, gith, and yuanti, then just do it another book along the lines of Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness, Draconomicon, Fiendish Codex, etc.

 

[Shade]

Maybe MMIV sold really well. So well in fact that they are producing another in the same format. I wonder where I could have come up with such a crazy idea.

Most likely it was already too far into the development cycle to be affected by MMIV's feedback. MMVI, if there is one, will be a better estimator of MMIV's performance.

Hmm... I think that blurb is misleading in some ways. IIRC, I didn't see anything in the outline to allow for "old monsters with class levels added." I think they mean that the monsters get more information added than just how to kill them and how they kill you.

Of course, I only know four of the people who worked on the book, so who knows what the others were assigned to do...

You just filled me with a great deal of hope.

I love the expanded ecology. I kinda like the lore. I can live with lairs. I can even live with the dragonspawn to some extent, but the classed MM critters are what kept me away from MMIV.

If that's true, and considering yourself and Jason B. are involved, this just went from "must skip" to "must see".

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Hey, I'e been looking for stats for a drow gigolo!

Seriously, if it's as much reprint of existing monsters with class levels as MMIV was, this will be the first monster product I give a pass.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

I thought MMIV was crap.
My FLGS thought it was crap. And he'd heard the same from plenty of others.

I won't waste my money on MMV if it is MMIV mark II.

 

[Razz]

So what we've established is that MMIV was great because it was DM-friendly and gave flavor to the new monsters...yet no one really like most of the new monsters.

Well, that sounds rather oxymoronic to me. If the flavor and fluff was supposed to be better for a DM to use the monster, yet the same DM doesn't like most of the new monsters, what exactly did MMIV accomplish then?

As for the classed-monster stuff, I do not mind it as long as it is along the lines of MMI. They had a sprinkling of classed monsters in that book and mostly for creatures commonly used like the illithid and ogre. I don't believe in taking, say, Kobold for MMV and detailing 10 different classed-types of kobold.

The new format would not bother me so much if they could decrease the font size by 2. If the authors are limited by page count, then why not lower font size? Sure, they get paid by the word, but it sounds like a logical loophole to me (unless they're limited by number words on top of limited by page count...)

The new format would not bother me so much if they didn't give paragraphs on useless material like typical treasure (can be a one-liner), ecology, and advanced creatures (can be a one-liner). I don't care about the gestation period of a tentacled-hairy-six clawed-asexual-bumble bee thing nor how many young they produce. Shouldn't that stuff be dictated on a whim by a DM should the need to know arise?

And I don't know about you guys, but those map lairs should go. It's wasted pages. Because you can print them for free on the website within the week the book is released.

And exactly where has the imagination with people gone these days? Now that WotC books have spoonfed us for so long, we're like 40-year olds still living in mom's basement. I don't know about the rest of you, but I open up my Fiend Folio or MM2 frequently and say to myself "I can do this with them...or this...or that!" Again, I ask where are your imaginations? I never thought D&D would ever turn into a Imaginative Training Game. It used to inspire, not dictate.

Maybe it's just me then. Maybe I'm naturally talented at devising my own backstory, creation myth, ecology, and use of a monster plucked from any RPG book. (sometimes I don't even have to, because most of my players don't give a crap about that stuff either as long as they kill and loot it which I am sure most gamers have players like that). If that's the case, then I apologize for giving the gaming community the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

I thought MMIV was crap.
My FLGS thought it was crap. And he'd heard the same from plenty of others.

I won't waste my money on MMV if it is MMIV mark II.

Well that's it then. Crap was repeated in this post. It must be true. I hereby rescind every good thing about MMIV. Obviously, it's crap!

 

[Psychic Warrior]

So what we've established is that MMIV was great because it was DM-friendly and gave flavor to the new monsters...yet no one really like most of the new monsters.

Well, that sounds rather oxymoronic to me. If the flavor and fluff was supposed to be better for a DM to use the monster, yet the same DM doesn't like most of the new monsters, what exactly did MMIV accomplish then?

As for the classed-monster stuff, I do not mind it as long as it is along the lines of MMI. They had a sprinkling of classed monsters in that book and mostly for creatures commonly used like the illithid and ogre. I don't believe in taking, say, Kobold for MMV and detailing 10 different classed-types of kobold.

The new format would not bother me so much if they could decrease the font size by 2. If the authors are limited by page count, then why not lower font size? Sure, they get paid by the word, but it sounds like a logical loophole to me (unless they're limited by number words on top of limited by page count...)

The new format would not bother me so much if they didn't give paragraphs on useless material like typical treasure (can be a one-liner), ecology, and advanced creatures (can be a one-liner). I don't care about the gestation period of a tentacled-hairy-six clawed-asexual-bumble bee thing nor how many young they produce. Shouldn't that stuff be dictated on a whim by a DM should the need to know arise?

And exactly where has the imagination with people gone these days? Now that WotC books have spoonfed us for so long, we're like 40-year olds still living in mom's basement. I don't know about the rest of you, but I open up my Fiend Folio or MM2 frequently and say to myself "I can do this with them...or this...or that!" Again, I ask where are your imaginations? I never thought D&D would ever turn into a Imaginative Training Game. It used to inspire, not dictate.

Maybe it's just me then. Maybe I'm naturally talented at devising my own backstory, creation myth, ecology, and use of a monster plucked from any RPG book. (sometimes I don't even have to, because most of my players don't give a crap about that stuff either as long as they kill and loot it which I am sure most gamers have players like that). If that's the case, then I apologize for giving the gaming community the benefit of the doubt.

Wow! He waited until page two to call us all spoonfed and unimaginative! That really is a record for you Razz. And nice insult to the community at large at the end there. This is easily one of your best flamebait posts in a while. I'm glad I unignored you long enough to read it! Shine on you crazy diamond!

 

[Maggan]

And exactly where has the imagination with people gone these days? Now that WotC books have spoonfed us for so long, we're like 40-year olds still living in mom's basement. I don't know about the rest of you, but I open up my Fiend Folio or MM2 frequently and say to myself "I can do this with them...or this...or that!" Again, I ask where are your imaginations? I never thought D&D would ever turn into a Imaginative Training Game. It used to inspire, not dictate.

Maybe it's just me then. Maybe I'm naturally talented at devising my own backstory, creation myth, ecology, and use of a monster plucked from any RPG book. (sometimes I don't even have to, because most of my players don't give a crap about that stuff either as long as they kill and loot it which I am sure most gamers have players like that). If that's the case, then I apologize for giving the gaming community the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah, you're probably one of them elite game masters I've been hearing about ...

My imagination is exactly where it's always been ... secure in my head, thank you for asking. No book ever put out by WotC or anyone else will take it away from me. And what's to stop anyone from opening MMIV and go "hey I can do this with this and that with that"?

There's nothing inherent in the presentation or content in the MMIV that stops my imagination from working properly. Unless I allow it to happen all by myself, in which case the fault is mine, not the book's. IMO.

/M

 

[I'm A Banana]

"Work? Work isn't fun. Work is work. Fun! Now that's fun!"

Statting classed monsters = Work

Using classed monsters = Fun

Less of the former, more of the latter.

 

[Crust]

As long as people buy the books, Wizards will publish anything, regardless of the redundancy or flimsy fluff.

Like others have said, I have enough monsters to choose from with the MMI, II, III, Fiend Folio, Libris Mortis, and many, many other books. I found MMIV to be unworthy of my shelf (for reasons already mentioned). I'm excited to see what's inside MMV, but I'm not going to buy it immediately.