D&D 5E Why AD&D Rocks and 3e - 5e Mocks all over AC...

Dioltach

Legend
Clearly it's because the armour isn't fresh and oiled from the armoury. Instead, it's been bashed, the joints are out of place and rusty from rain and blood, and generally it doesn't move as easily as it should. (At least that explanation works for me.)
 

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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
I found it ridiculous how 3e decided that your DEX modifier to AC was limited due to the armor type. Even more so with 5e.

Running in a straight line is not a major feat of dexterity! Nor is doing pushups.

I don't know why a video of a couple of guys doing really awkward cartwheels and shoulder rolls makes you think there's not a limit on the Dex that can be applied in that armor.
 


darjr

I crit!
Want it because it was also a largely used house rule because a lot of gamers also lifted armor restrictions based in thier campaigns and “proficiencies” etc? At least in part.
 


D&D Simulationism Edition totally tried to play it off as verisimilitude.

As are armor check penalties.

Never ascribe to balance concerns what is absolutely designer error.
Whilst that is an amusing maxim, I'm not sure I buy it in this case, because this was 2000, and by then it was well-known that armour didn't significantly slow you down. Also, can't it be both? Bad design/designer error and attempt at balance?

3.XE was absolutely stuffed to the brim with stuff that they both intended as balancing measures, and which was bad design. I mean, I don't really re-litigate the whole of 3.XE here, but like, there was a LOT of it, tons of Feats, tons of weapons, tons of PrCs, and so on were just really badly designed whilst containing poorly-conceived stuff intending (and frequently failing) to make them balanced.

3E was "Simulationism Edition", but it was also "Needless Complexity Edition" and "D&D's First Baby Steps At Balance Edition" (which, ironically, ended up less balanced than 2E, I'd argue).

I guess on the gripping hand we have to factor in that Jonathan Tweet is kind of an, well, I think the word is "nitwit" to the point where he got involved with scientific racism and nonsensical cop-aganda and ended a man's whole career - his own. So maybe he did just believe some very dim things re: armour?
I kind of doubt most people (self included) could do better gymnastics buck naked.
Gymnastics literally means "naked exercise" though.

I mean, that doesn't mean you're totally wrong, but I think you need pretty modern materials before one becomes wrong on that.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
If anything, the video suggests the AD&D movement penalties for "bulky" armor are misguided. Why is a guy in full plate moving at half speed?!? 🤷‍♂️

A film of one guy, running alone, doesn't indicate much.
Take two people. Have them both run unarmored - show they are about the same speed.
Put one in armor. Have them race the other unarmored. See what happens, and you may have a point.
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Whilst that is an amusing maxim, I'm not sure I buy it in this case, because this was 2000, and by then it was well-known that armour didn't significantly slow you down. Also, can't it be both? Bad design/designer error and attempt at balance?

3.XE was absolutely stuffed to the brim with stuff that they both intended as balancing measures, and which was bad design. I mean, I don't really re-litigate the whole of 3.XE here, but like, there was a LOT of it, tons of Feats, tons of weapons, tons of PrCs, and so on were just really badly designed whilst containing poorly-conceived stuff intending (and frequently failing) to make them balanced.

3E was "Simulationism Edition", but it was also "Needless Complexity Edition" and "D&D's First Baby Steps At Balance Edition" (which, ironically, ended up less balanced than 2E, I'd argue).

I guess on the gripping hand we have to factor in that Jonathan Tweet is kind of an, well, I think the word is "nitwit" to the point where he got involved with scientific racism and nonsensical cop-aganda and ended a man's whole career - his own. So maybe he did just believe some very dim things re: armour?

Gymnastics literally means "naked exercise" though.

I mean, that doesn't mean you're totally wrong, but I think you need pretty modern materials before one becomes wrong on that.
I would say that 1e and 2e were also "Needless Complexity Editions", so really, it's a tradition...
 


Vaalingrade

Legend
So maybe he did just believe some very dim things re: armour?
That's the thing I've been saying.
Gymnastics literally means "naked exercise" though.
Hey. Hey. My cousin was on the Olympic gymnastics team some years ago. I would rather we not.
I mean, that doesn't mean you're totally wrong, but I think you need pretty modern materials before one becomes wrong on that.
Wasn't all exercise basically naked exercise back then?

When I think gymnastics, it's either spandex or a requisite outfit of old timey trunks and a meticulously curled moustache.
 

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