D&D 5E Why are non-caster Ranger themes so popular?

[ECMO3]

Outlander is really good to make a pseudo-ranger of almost anyone as long as their ability scores are suitable. Some backgrounds are much more impactful than others, and outlander is one of those.

So I would think an outlander Rogue who takes the Scout subclass would be pretty awesome at filling this niche already? Which begs the question, why do they need the Ranger class to do it when they can already get there with Rogue?

 

[dave2008]

So I would think an outlander Rogue who takes the Scout subclass would be pretty awesome at filling this niche already? Which begs the question, why do they need the Ranger class to do it when they can already get there with Rogue?

It does, that is the exact combo we use for a ranger in my group. We don't use the Ranger class at all to simulate our idea of ranger.

 

[ECMO3]

I've always found it odd that while the inspiration for the ranger class was clearly Aragorn, the iconic D&D ranger has of course for many many years now been Drizzt. And while it's been a long time and there's many of the later books I haven't read, to the very best of my knowledge Drizzt was never written as casting spells other than those that came inherently to him as a drow. The quintessential D&D ranger doesn't even cast ranger spells.

The modern Drizzt is pretty much a Fighter/Monk. They may call him a "Ranger" or a "Weapon Master" but he does not display much in the way of a wilderness person in any recent novels. He is a master Swordsman and Monk mostly and has been for 10ish years or more.

You have to go all the way back to the 80s and early 90s to find novels where Drizzt acted like a wilderness explorer at all, and even then it was only some limited tracking and survival skills and pretty muted and not much to relate him to the actual D&D class (past or present).

Side note - Drizzt's Unicorn and his Panther are both magic items, and both were originally owned by Wizards, so they are not representative of a "non-magical" Ranger-beast master theme.

So the Archetype people say they want is not what Drizzt is.

 

[ECMO3]

Artificers aren't all that far off considering how few spells an artificer actually gets. A Battlesmith Artificer makes a pretty good template for a ranger.

As long as the have a 12 intelligence, Artificers get more spells than Rangers, both prepared and in terms of slots. Additionally they prepare like a cleric so they can choose from the whole lot of them.

 

[Scribe]

The modern Drizzt is pretty much a Fighter/Monk. They may call him a "Ranger" or a "Weapon Master" but he does not display much in the way of a wilderness person in any recent novels. He is a master Swordsman and Monk mostly and has been for 10ish years or more.

I'd say this is right. You would have to go back to 3.5 style with various feats/prestige classes, to actually stat him out now.

 

[Ancalagon]

So I would think an outlander Rogue who takes the Scout subclass would be pretty awesome at filling this niche already? Which begs the question, why do they need the Ranger class to do it when they can already get there with Rogue?

I have a character, Udit, which was a rogue thief with the sailor background. He predates the scout, but if I would to play him today, I would replace thief with scout (but keep sailor). I totally would replay that character.

In fact, Udit had a tiny bit of magic because he accidentally became the high priest of of a very very minor god - i.e. he had the magical adept feat. Which I think is just the right amount of magic for a "ranger".

 

[Ancalagon]

The modern Drizzt is pretty much a Fighter/Monk. They may call him a "Ranger" or a "Weapon Master" but he does not display much in the way of a wilderness person in any recent novels. He is a master Swordsman and Monk mostly and has been for 10ish years or more.

You have to go all the way back to the 80s and early 90s to find novels where Drizzt acted like a wilderness explorer at all, and even then it was only some limited tracking and survival skills and pretty muted and not much to relate him to the actual D&D class (past or present).

Side note - Drizzt's Unicorn and his Panther are both magic items, and both were originally owned by Wizards, so they are not representative of a "non-magical" Ranger-beast master theme.

So the Archetype people say they want is not what Drizzt is.

Easy: Kensai Monk with outlander background. Done.

 

[Ancalagon]

I like the idea of poulitces and such, but I, personally, woud not want them fueled by spell slots.

This is a bit of a side note, but about that:

I play a fighter in a party with not a lot of support, so I took the feat Chef... but the character is also a sage, so I reskinned it into alchemy - I give tonics (temp HP) and poultices (boost hitdice healing). Sage can specialize in alchemy but it doesn't give you proficiency in the tools, but reskinned chef does

Anyway, that's somewhere to begin I think

 

[Charlaquin]

It does, that is the exact combo we use for a ranger in my group. We don't use the Ranger class at all to simulate our idea of ranger.

I like the scout rogue a lot, but it doesn’t satisfy what I want out of a ranger. Just having really high nature and survival skills doesn’t really satisfy the concept for me, any more than having a high religion skill would satisfy the concept of a cleric. I guess scout rogues are also sneaky, which feels kind of ranger-y, I guess, but… Ultimately it feels like a wilderness-flavored rogue, not a ranger.

 

[Minigiant]

I like the idea of poulitces and such, but I, personally, woud not want them fueled by spell slots.

Here's the problem with poultices.

It's nonmagical healing. Almost every instance of nonmagical got wonky reviews in playtest surveys.

When WOTC made a "ranger with no spells", fans said it was too weak. "It didn't heal enough." "You don't get enough uses." "It's basically a fighter"

That's why WOTC never formally produced a spell-less ranger.
Because when asked, people describe a fighter with Favored Enemy and Naturally Explorer. Then they say they don't want a fighter clone and dislike FE and NE. Then they say a rogue fits. But they don't want a rogue they want a ranger. It's all conflicting desires.