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why are orbs good again?
- Thread starter evilbob
- Start date
Nifft said:
Ahh, ok, there is one then, whose effect is ongoing damage (just 5), but no status effect. It also is very close range. Overall it doesn't seem like a very good control spell to me. That said, I guess I missed the one exception on "save ends" spells.
I'd argue that the Wand is better for Resilient Sphere, since it helps make sure you get a hit.
evilbob:
Actually, no. My argument is that the Wand's effect is more powerful because it allows you to nail the effect - you are assured of an effect and as long as that effect is good, you're golden. It's only a secondary consideration that it works with most spells.
An Orb's effect doesn't help you in that regard. It only helps you maintain a status lock with a (save ends) feature, it doesn't help you to put that lock on in the first place.
That said, an orb has secondary powers and it maps to a more desirable attribute - Wisdom. I would prefer Orb if only for that, but that's not to say that a Wand isn't a competitive choice.
Actually, no. My argument is that the Wand's effect is more powerful because it allows you to nail the effect - you are assured of an effect and as long as that effect is good, you're golden. It's only a secondary consideration that it works with most spells.
An Orb's effect doesn't help you in that regard. It only helps you maintain a status lock with a (save ends) feature, it doesn't help you to put that lock on in the first place.
That said, an orb has secondary powers and it maps to a more desirable attribute - Wisdom. I would prefer Orb if only for that, but that's not to say that a Wand isn't a competitive choice.
small pumpkin man
Explorer
The Orb is the most interesting, and the only one that can be potentially broken, but the wand and the staff are competetive choices, yes. It's not like you're gimping yourself by taking them.
drachasor said:
You seem to be forgetting the "Extend the duration of an effect" portion of an Orb.
The save portion is fine, but it is mostly Dailies (shy of multiclassing).
But, the increased duration is what I will mainly be taking an Orb for. Even using Ray of Frost with an Orb allows the caster to slow an opponent for 2 rounds. A Wizard might be able to do quite a bit of damage to a melee opponent who cannot reach him for 2 rounds.
There are more than 30 Wizard spells that can be extended an extra round.
And additional duration allows for fellow PCs to get multiple attempts against controlled or damaged opponents.
Wands are ok if a Wizard has a really high Dex. But, high Dex Wizards tend to be weak in Fort and Will saves. Even for a Wizard with a 16 Dex, 85% of any encounter a wand is used, the results for a single attack roll are the same (shy of rerolls). That means that the Wand helps 1 combat in 6 more or less for that Wizard. Even when his Dex is up to 26, nearly half of encounters, the Wand doesn't help at all (since the roll hits without the bonus).
Either use of an Orb can help more than that in more combats than that. They just flat out have more utility than a Wand because they are used after a successful roll, not before.
KarinsDad said:
Sadly, only at-wills can be extended an extra round. So that's only Ray of Frost and Cloud of Daggers. It's mega-lame and disappointing, imho. If it worked with ANY wizard spell that had a duration, then I'd be all over Orbs. They'd really be awesome for control then. (I misread it the same way the first time. Reading through this thread set me straight).
Personally, I think Orbs working any ANY spell for duration extension, Wands giving a boost to all attacks made with one spell (so it improves AoEs), and some sort of boost to the Staff would be nice bonuses for the Wizard. Sadly that's not how things work. Honestly, more troublesome is how much trouble Wizards seem to have hitting things at higher levels compared to people using weapons.
KarinsDad said:
Wands are good because they help you hit with a spell. That's huge. Even if you happen to roll well, you can't count on that. A wand helps ensure a hit when you really need it, which is very precious because there are so few ways that Wizards can increase their attack rolls (and they don't get nearly as many bonuses as some other classes can get).
I'm beginning to think it's better to pick up orb mastery as your extra implement feat. Your not going to assign an 18 to wisdom, and even if you go with 16 wisdom, +2 for race (giving you a max of 16 int) a -4 on saves on sleep once per day isn't necesarily that big of a deal. Nor is -4 to saves against the ongoing damage from fire shroud to 1 enemy.
Orb mastery doesn't get broken until high level and by then you can have picked it up from the feat. That way you can easily swap it back out when your DM or wizards decides to nerf it too
Orb mastery doesn't get broken until high level and by then you can have picked it up from the feat. That way you can easily swap it back out when your DM or wizards decides to nerf it too
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