D&D General Why Do People Hate Gnomes?

[Seramus]

Couldn't the same be said of any race? being gnomes add to it because that was the lore (or lores) stabilished for gnomes. Any race could be given any culture (some would need a shift in mechanics though). I'm not trying to say everyone should like gnomes. You like what you like, and that's fine. I'm just trying to say that for some of us tolkien is not that important to the game...

Nothing wrong with that. It makes for a very metropolitan setting (perhaps like Ravnica) where culture groups are the main thing, and Tasha's Custom Race is the only race you need since you're just a [Fill in the Blank] living in a culture group.

 

[Bolares]

Nothing wrong with that. It makes for a very metropolitan setting (perhaps like Ravnica) where culture groups are the main thing, and Tasha's Custom Race is the only race you need since you're just a [Fill in the Blank] living in a culture group.

I think race still has a place in this metropolitan settings. Sure, race takes a back seat to culture, but you don't need to have one or the other. Even moreso in a game where different races have so many biological traits. Being a long living elf can matter, having inate illusion magic could make a gnome pop inside that culture. Eberron is really metropolitan, and nation and culture are on the forefront, but I can't say that a character's race has no impact in their backstory.

 

[Steampunkette]

No, Bolares... it couldn't be said for any race. Because of Cultural Weight and Cultural Momentum.

Elves are woodland beings. Doesn't matter what your specific setting has to say about them, culturally they wear green and have bows and are often spellcasters because pop culture agrees upon it.

Halflings are cooks and happy little jokesters who live in cozy little homes that big people bump their heads upon. They're farmers and simple peasant folk. Because pop culture agrees upon it.

Dwarves are smiths and warriors who live underground and make some of the most amazing weapons, armor, and metalwork possible! Because pop culture agrees upon it.

Sure. You can make metropolitan elves, like Seramus says. You can slap various cultures onto elves using A5e's awesome Heritage/Culture split.

But ultimately, when some rando on the street thinks about elves, they'll think about point-eared archers wearing leaf-brooches and art deco embroidery on their green tunics and brown boots. And your elves will be a "So elves -but-" because you're working off that baseline and making changes.

Gnomes? Gnomes have no cultural weight outside of this smug lil' guy.

And that is, very clearly, not a D&D Gnome.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I get your point now, thanks. My different perspective is that I don't relate my D&D so closely to Tolkien. Rarely my elves and dwarves look like LotR characters and since I read the description of gnomes in 3.0 I took an interest to them. The lore in the PHB and in setting books was always suficient for me to play D&D, the notion of a race not having a seminal pop culture reference outside of the game mattering in game is kind of alien to me. Also, anyone who read Eberron has an example of deep and focused identities for their gnomes.

I don't put much stock on Tolkien and love Eberron.

Still hate gnomes. Even Eberron, which is generally a brilliant setting didn't do them any favors by splitting the difference on being discount Ferengi (along with the unfortunate stereotype born from Tolkien) between dwarves and gnomes.

Or a Pantheon of Gods. A small number of gods is extremely memorable and has a strong identity. But when you add a dozen different Pantheons each with their own set of gods, it bleeds together into a mush.

Not a fan of species pantheons. they tend to generate speciesist jackholes like Corelion (sp?) Elvesarebetter, Garl Koboldharasser, or excuses for bad species concepts like Lloth, Queen of the Demon Incompetence Pits and Abusive Father Gruumish.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Couldn't the same be said of any race?

I don't think so, but if it can then I don't see point of them being separate either.

being gnomes add to it because that was the lore (or lores) stabilished for gnomes. Any race could be given any culture (some would need a shift in mechanics though). I'm not trying to say everyone should like gnomes. You like what you like, and that's fine. I'm just trying to say that for some of us tolkien is not that important to the game...

Yeah, I agree with that being derived from Tolkien is not necessary. But I still think intelligent species should have something that defines than as a species. I claim you could in most instances replace halflings with gnomes or gnomes with halflings and the resulting fiction or mental imagery wouldn't change. People literally cannot even tell halflings and gnomes apart.

 

[Bolares]

Why should I care about what a rando on the street thinks about elves? D&D is a really personal game, that means different things for different people. We keep trying to find "the real" answer to things... that doesn't exist. Some people need their game to resonate with pop culture, others don't.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Why should I care about what a rando on the street thinks about elves?

This entire thread is about what some rando on the street thinks about gnomes.

 

[Bolares]

Still hate gnomes.

Sure, there is nothing wrong with that. We don't have to like the same stuff. The game is big enough to fit all of our preferences and styles.

 

[Bolares]

This entire thread is about what some rando on the street thinks about gnomes.

Sure, my only problem is someone saying I'm wrong because I don't give the same amount of pop culture weight to my game as them.

 

[Seramus]

I am reminded of an old conversation on the Candlekeep Forums. It was something like:
"Someone wishes all races to transform into Elves. What makes them an Elf?"