D&D 5E Why do Sorcerers have so few spells compared to other full Casters

[MoonSong]

So here are a few house rules I have to help balance the sorcerer compared to the wizard:

1) They can create spell slots up to 6th level using sorcery points. The cost is 9 sorcery points.

2) Draconic Bloodline Sorcerers get the following spells as bonus known spells at the appropriate level. These spells cannot be swapped out:

1st Level: Burning Hands*, Detect Magic
3rd Level: Agnazaar’s Scorcher*, Enthrall
5th Level: Fear, Fireball*
7th Level: Elemental Bane**, Wall of Fire*
9th Level: Cone of cold*
* Damage type changes to type associated with your dragon heritage
** Damage type affected by spell is always the type associated with your dragon heritage

3) Wild Magic Sorcerers get the following spells as bonus known spells at the appropriate level. These spells cannot be swapped out:

1st Level: Chromatic Orb*, Hex
3rd Level: Crown of Madness, Mirror Image
5th Level: Counterspell, Hypnotic Pattern
7th Level: Confusion, Freedom of Movement
9th Level: Animate Objects
*Does not require Material Component, but must roll a d6 to randomly determine energy type of the spell damage.

4) Storm Sorcerers get the additional spells as presented in their original format in UA.

5) Shadow Sorcerers get the following spells as bonus known spells at the appropriate level. These spells cannot be swapped out:

1st Level: Silent Image, Sleep
3rd Level: Invisibility, Misty Step
5th Level: Major Image, Nondetection
7th Level: Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility
9th Level: Mislead

6) Font of Magic is given at first level. Sorcerers start with 2 points, but don't gain any more sorcery points until 3rd level.

7A) Metamagic is given at 2nd level rather than 3rd. Subsequent metamagic is gained as normal.

7B) I've changed Careful Spell to include the following: If you choose to spend 3 sorcery points, your chosen creatures are completely unaffected by the spell.

8) I've replaced the capstone ability of Sorcererous Restoration with Vicious Spellcasting.

Vicious Spellcasting
At 20th level, whenever you cast a spell that causes damage, you can add your charisma modifier to the damage dealt.

I've also made changes to each bloodline's abilities to tweak them, but I feel these are the biggest changes I made to the sorcerer.

I'm toying with the idea of having these house rules:

* Remove focuses and subtle spells. No components needed, period.
* Give all sorcerers but favored souls two extra spells known of every level.
* Allow them to pick spells from any list, as long as they don't use costly components.

And to do the following with wizards

* No buying spells or learning from scrolls, want to learn a spell? you need to dissect a magical creature to have a chance to learn the spell. For spells over 5th level this is the vivisection of a magical creature.
* No arcane recovery.
* No at-will casting at high levels
* At certain level you start to rot and gain bonuses against cold, then against disease and fatigue, then by 20th level you become a lich.
* You can't go beyond wizard 5 and still be neutral good, or wizard 10 and remain good, to get wizard 15 you turn evil.

And the following for ritual casting: YOu need a successful arcana, perform, nature or religion check (base 15+ ritual level) depending on the class or you waste the ritual.

 

[MoonSong]

Sorcs are specialist, wizards are generalist. Some seem to think Sorcs can only specialize in blasting, but metamagic can be applied to any specialization. There are other specializations, for example;

A save or suck sorc using heighten and twin can affect the battle in ways a wizard never could despite having the same spells, snag a few buff spells for legendary resistance.
A battle field control sorc using quicken never has to choose between creating advantage for his allies or disadvantage for his foes.
A social focused sorc can use subtle spell to augment an already high charisma by undetectably casting charms and compulsions.

Just calling them blasters shows a lack of imagination, sorcs are all specialist, but they are not all the same specialty. They are also much more flexible in how they use their spell slots, if they need more low level spells they can crunch a high level spell, and their low level slots continue to be useful since they can be used as fuel for higher level spells or metamagic. Don't like the second level spells, don't know any, and just use the slots for extra juice. Sorcs will almost always have the spells slots they need when they need them, even after many battles between rests.

Also spell casting doesn't exist in a vacuum, on the whole charisma is a much more useful primary stat than intelligence. With the right background and a good charisma it's trivial to become the face of the party, a role that's useful every time you interact with NPCs, wizards on the other hand get to hang out and hope something obscure comes up so they get a chance to use their knowledge skills.

Social spells are nice for a wizard who doesn't specialize, but are dead ends for specialists, all social spells are basically "push button to create hostile creature". And speaking of that, you are ignoring bards, same casting stat, more spells known, better armor, hp, weapons and skills... Trust me it isn't lack of imagination, it is frustration with not being able to have the spells that actually help to specialize on other things. Try to choose the spells known for those, it is harder than it sounds.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

Personally, I don't disagree that sorcerers should have a more limited selection of known spells. They absolutely should. It fits with the historical concept of the sorcerer, and is definitely a balancing factor. However, I think sorcerers have been gimped far too heavily on their spell selection. Increasing their selection a bit is not going to dramatically change/break the game. This is especially true when you consider the following:

-Wizards can cast ritual spells all day long (meaning several important utility spells never even need to be memorized)

Many of the wizard abilities require no additional resource expenditure (i.e. Abjurer's spell resistance, potent cantrip, ect) whereas many sorcerer abilities are are tied to a limited resource

-High level wizards get to freely cast 1st and 2nd level spells like cantrips.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

Social spells are nice for a wizard who doesn't specialize, but are dead ends for specialists, all social spells are basically "push button to create hostile creature". And speaking of that, you are ignoring bards, same casting stat, more spells known, better armor, hp, weapons and skills... Trust me it isn't lack of imagination, it is frustration with not being able to have the spells that actually help to specialize on other things. Try to choose the spells known for those, it is harder than it sounds.

Yes! This is the whole thing. Bard are spontaneous casters in the same vein as sorcerers and stack up against the wizard in balance, but are severely stacked against the sorcerer.

 

[ScuroNotte]

So here are a few house rules I have to help balance the sorcerer compared to the wizard:

1) They can create spell slots up to 6th level using sorcery points. The cost is 9 sorcery points.

2) Draconic Bloodline Sorcerers get the following spells as bonus known spells at the appropriate level. These spells cannot be swapped out:

1st Level: Burning Hands*, Detect Magic
3rd Level: Agnazaar’s Scorcher*, Enthrall
5th Level: Fear, Fireball*
7th Level: Elemental Bane**, Wall of Fire*
9th Level: Cone of cold*
* Damage type changes to type associated with your dragon heritage
** Damage type affected by spell is always the type associated with your dragon heritage

3) Wild Magic Sorcerers get the following spells as bonus known spells at the appropriate level. These spells cannot be swapped out:

1st Level: Chromatic Orb*, Hex
3rd Level: Crown of Madness, Mirror Image
5th Level: Counterspell, Hypnotic Pattern
7th Level: Confusion, Freedom of Movement
9th Level: Animate Objects
*Does not require Material Component, but must roll a d6 to randomly determine energy type of the spell damage.

4) Storm Sorcerers get the additional spells as presented in their original format in UA.

5) Shadow Sorcerers get the following spells as bonus known spells at the appropriate level. These spells cannot be swapped out:

1st Level: Silent Image, Sleep
3rd Level: Invisibility, Misty Step
5th Level: Major Image, Nondetection
7th Level: Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility
9th Level: Mislead

6) Font of Magic is given at first level. Sorcerers start with 2 points, but don't gain any more sorcery points until 3rd level.

7A) Metamagic is given at 2nd level rather than 3rd. Subsequent metamagic is gained as normal.

7B) I've changed Careful Spell to include the following: If you choose to spend 3 sorcery points, your chosen creatures are completely unaffected by the spell.

8) I've replaced the capstone ability of Sorcererous Restoration with Vicious Spellcasting.

Vicious Spellcasting
At 20th level, whenever you cast a spell that causes damage, you can add your charisma modifier to the damage dealt.

I've also made changes to each bloodline's abilities to tweak them, but I feel these are the biggest changes I made to the sorcerer.

Do you replace Sorcerous Restoration at another level or modify it? We have at 7th level after short rest regain half of spent sorcery points

what's your opinion

 

[Hawk Diesel]

Personally, I'm mostly ok with sorcery points not getting a regen after a short rest. The amount of sorcery points a sorcerer gets roughly equates to the additional spell slots a wizard gets after a long rest. The difference is a sorcerer doesn't have to rest to access them whereas a wizard does. This allows sorcerers to go nova, while a wizard that exhausts themselves in an encounter will be able to recharge a bit, but they need that rest in order to fully tap themselves out. The problem, however, comes in when so many of the sorcerer's abilities are tied to this resource, while the wizard has many abilities that are independent of their daily alloted resources.

In my homebrew, I've reworked many of the sorcerer archetype abilities to either be cheaper in sorcery point cost, more effect for the cost, or made them independent of the mechanic. I also have feat that can increase the sorcery point pool.

So all in all, I'm a bit torn. I feel like the sorcery points shouldn't recharge easily because it thematically fits the sorcerer, but because the mechanic is so central to many of the sorcerer abilities it becomes hard to determine what a fair overall sorcery point pool might be.

EDIT: I've been reluctant to post the changes I made to the archetypes, but I'm thinking maybe I'll post them tomorrow.

 

[Grimgold]

Balancing against bard isn't a real good comparison right now since lore bard is the most powerful of the caster (arguably the most powerful class). A full 9 stack of spells, gets to pick and choose spells from every class, the most skills in the game with half prof bonus to the few they don't have and double prof bonus to a few they choose, armor and weapon proficiencies, desirable main stats, and the best uses of bardic inspiration as the cherry on top. I think warlock or wizards are much better comparisons, and I think even with limited spells known meta magic puts them on par.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

[MENTION=6809435]Grimgold[/MENTION] I can concede that point that the bard may not be the best comparison when you put it like that. However, metamagic would be a balancing point if sorcerers didn't depend on this resource to power soooo many of their other abilities.

 

[ScuroNotte]

Would love to read your changes to the archetypes. Though I prefer a progression to 20 spells known versus bonus spells

Also, at first glance For Wild Sorcerer, I would have thought 3rd level Blink better than 2nd level Mirror Image in selection as Blink may or may not work each turn.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

Also, at first glance For Wild Sorcerer, I would have thought 3rd level Blink better than 2nd level Mirror Image in selection as Blink may or may not work each turn.

Either can work well. I feel like the Wild Mage is not just about randomness, but also madness and trickery. I wrestled with which one of those fit best, and in the end went with mirror image just out of personal taste.