D&D 5E Why the claim of combat and class balance between the classes is mainly a forum issue. (In my opinion)

[Derren]

Something's not clear to you in what I said? Or do you simply not have anything constructive to say?

I guess it is just the confusion at your believe that "being heroic" is a mechanical value.

 

[XunValdorl_of_Kilsek]

I guess it is just the confusion at your believe that "being heroic" is a mechanical value.

Bingo!

 

[Marshall]

You really need to watch some Doctor Who...

There's a reason there have been, uh, 12 or more Doctors. Someone eventually figures out to not take him prisoner and just disintegrate him.

 

[Remathilis]

There's a reason there have been, uh, 12 or more Doctors. Someone eventually figures out to not take him prisoner and just disintegrate him.

Except that's not how any one of the 13 Doctor's have died. And if you're implying that since he's a non-combatant he keeps dying, you REALLY need to start watching it!

 

[Mistwell]

From this post here, I'm going to assume you don't have much gaming experience.

I'm not sure if you've had much experience in playing D&D if this is your conclusion.

So 35 posts in, and you've already told not one but two different long time posters (one has been posting since these boards began, at the beginning of 3e) that they don't have much gaming/D&D experience because they view the game different than you?

XunValdorl_of_Kilsek, people can view the game different than you, and yet have as much or more experience as you. You've been playing for 27 years you said. I've been playing for a decade more than that, and so far I've found I view the game different than you almost across the board.

Which is fine. It's one beauty of this game that people can play it so differently than each other, but all still have fun playing it. I don't judge you for playing the game different than I do, even though you've played it less than I have. I don't really think it matters how long you've been playing the game. Why do you keep mentioning it in response to people?

I'm reading the book "Of Dice and Men" right now, and in that book the author mentions D&D players who do this sort of thing to their peers, when their peers disagree with them. In that book he gives an explanation for why that author thinks it happens, but rather than just guess and make assumptions I think it's more fair to just ask you. Why are you doing that?

 

[ImperatorK]

I guess it is just the confusion at your believe that "being heroic" is a mechanical value.

Um... you can hardly call yourself heroic if you fail at doing anything heroic... >.>

 

[Sage Genesis]

You could without thinking twice about it. You could also end up with the same wizard making higher Diplomacy/Bluff/Stealth/Intimidate checks than any other PC in the party. He would also have acess to dozens of out of combat rituals, etc, etc, etc.... The 4e Wizard infinitely more diverse than any previous editions Wizard. Without being so OTT powerful that no other class matters.

Let me show you.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Examplor the Pacifist, level 5
Human, Wizard
Arcane Implement Mastery Option: Staff of Defense

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 15, DEX 14, INT 19, WIS 10, CHA 10

AC: 20 Fort: 17 Ref: 19 Will: 17
HP: 46 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 11

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +11, Diplomacy +7, History +11, Insight +7, Religion +11

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Athletics +2, Bluff +2, Dungeoneering +2, Endurance +4, Heal +2, Intimidate +2, Nature +2, Perception +2, Stealth +4, Streetwise +2, Thievery +4

POWERS
Wizard Utility: Spook
Wizard Utility: Prestidigitation
Wizard Utility: Light
Wizard Utility: Mage Hand
Wizard Attack 1: Sleep
Wizard Attack 1: Hypnotism
Wizard Attack 1: Howling Wall
Wizard Attack 1: Illusory Obstacles
Wizard Attack 1: Bewitching Charm
Wizard Utility 2: Instant Friends
Wizard Utility 2: Shield
Wizard Attack 3: Blissful Ignorance
Wizard Attack 5: Visions of Avarice
Wizard Attack 5: Web

====== End ======


I edited out some of the irrelevant stuff for brevity's sake. What we have here is a 5th level 4e wizard with not a single damaging power. It took me maybe four minutes to make. Can't make a wizard with half the powers doing no damage on a bet? I'll take that bet. What did I win?

I'm not sure if you've had much experience in playing D&D if this is your conclusion.

Ah yes, when the debate goes against you we throw out the ad hominems. Call into question the validity of the argument by questioning the validity of the person himself. Predictable but still has a charm all its own.

As for the rest of your post, you didn't make any relevant points so there's nothing for me to respond to.

 

[the Jester]

I am a big supporter of 4e (well d&d any edition really) even being lumped in with the 4vengers back when the wotc board was doing that... and I agree with 3/4 of what he is saying here...

>snip<

...I couldn't make a wizard (and I think I do pretty good with this) and have half my powers not cause damage on a bet...

Actually, you can, and pretty easily. One of the pcs in my 4e game (currently about 24th level) is an enchanter mage, and almost all of his spells are "Hey, enemy, go over there and make an attack" type things; the wizard doesn't do much damage, he gets his enemies to fight amongst themselves.

EDIT: But I see [MENTION=6706099]Sage Genesis[/MENTION] already made this point and backed it up with actual work. Well done, sir.

 

[Derren]

There's a reason there have been, uh, 12 or more Doctors. Someone eventually figures out to not take him prisoner and just disintegrate him.

And yet he counts as example, as does the guy from the Quest movies or McGuyver

Um... you can hardly call yourself heroic if you fail at doing anything heroic... >.>

Of course you can. While being successful helps, being heroic is first and foremost about the choices you make, to go into situations with the high possibility of your demise in order to help others. It has nothing to do with how many 18s you rolled or how high your attack bonus is.

 

[XunValdorl_of_Kilsek]

Actually, you can, and pretty easily. One of the pcs in my 4e game (currently about 24th level) is an enchanter mage, and almost all of his spells are "Hey, enemy, go over there and make an attack" type things; the wizard doesn't do much damage, he gets his enemies to fight amongst themselves.

In all fairness, you are swinging enemies at people instead of a sword in your hand. It's still combat.