Why Worldbuilding is Bad

[Desdichado]

Post-modern junk like The Great Gatsby? Now that's a lean, efficient piece of work. A book that both follows Harrison's advice and provides the one of the definitive pictures of its time and place.

I'm not convinced that that's relevent, though. The Great Gatsby is a novel in which the setting was the everyday world that the author knew and presumably the readers would too, and the more detailed setting description about the particular place and society in which the novel takes place--is described in great detail by Fitzgerald, while the other stuff about the setting is merely inferred because there was no reason to spell it out.

In a fantasy or science fiction book, that's not true, and arguably one of the primary drivers of the genre is the setting and how it differs from the everyday world that the readers already know. While his advice about not going overboard on setting detail is noted, and I agree with it (again; looking at the few authors who manage to get published despite not grasping this detail, their books are dreadful to read) it also seems to go a bit too far. One of the consistent details and main attractions of this genre is exploring a setting different from the regular world.

 

[pawsplay]

Sci-fi writer M John Harrison tells you why you don't need to spend hours crafting your campaign setting:



From here. Discuss.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to side with Dr. Tolkien and Barker on this one. Sorry, Mr. Harrison.

 

[Dr. Prunesquallor]

I didn't mean to imply you weren't familiar with British SF, I was hazarding a guess as to why you hadn't heard of him seeing as he was only recently published in the US.

A minor nit. "The Pastel City," the first of the Viriconium stories, was published in the US in 1971 by Pocket Books New York. Mr. Harrison has perhaps been out of fashion for a while and is now being republished in the US.

Funnily enough, "Pastel City" seems to have numerous odd little "world-building" details such as "the Dead Freight Dirge" sung by the soldiers of Birkin Grif's warband and references to the absent Benedict Paucemanly who flew to the Moon (and appears in a later tale, I believe). Maybe the author has "outgrown" his own previous work.

Anyway, I really enjoyed the Viriconium stuff, reminds me of old school Moorcock.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

I tend to do a lot of worldbuilding as a DM. I want a world that is fairly internally consistent, and I place a lot of importance on figuring out the logical impact of magic on the world. It's hard enough to design adventures taking into account the spells that 2-3 casters will use over 1-5 days. But to figure out what life in a large city would look like with anything close to DMG demographics? That requires a LOT of prep if it is to be logical. How do day-to-day life and geopolitical interactions change when you have multiple LEGENDARY (12th-level+) casters? (the ones who must exist to churn out all those rings of protection)

Worldbuilding is also necessary in my current campaign because, as an experiment, I'm using "Status Quo" challenges, rather than "1 or 2 ELs higher than the party's level." The hobgoblin overlords have their forces roughly sketched out ahead of time. The captains are levels 6-7 with 80 soldiers, the governors about 9-10 with 250 elite troops, and so on, up to the 20th-level half-fiend emperor. That's immutable, no matter what levels of the PCs when they take on one of these tiers. To me, the fact that PCs so often always face CR-appropriate challenges is one of the hardest things in which to suspend disbelief. If the town locksmith sells Amazing (DC 40) locks, then the gem merchant should use those on his strongboxes, regardless of the PCs' level.

I need to do a good amount of worldbuilding because I'm not THAT good at improvisation relative to the logical consistency that I expect. D&D should be an open-ended game where nearly anything as possible. If the PCs want to go to the capital city one day, I should know if there is a magic shop, what magical protections and guards the shopkeeper has, what items he has available, and so on. If they want to sneak into the palace to kidnap the princess, I should know what spells protect the palace, what the caster level is of those spells, the layout of the palace, how many guards there are and where they are, and so on.

An author knows exactly what is going to happen in a novel. As a DM, I enjoy being surprised by the players' initiative and creativity. I just have to be prepared for them to do anything they want to do.

 

[Dr. Prunesquallor]

A minor nit. "The Pastel City," the first of the Viriconium stories, was published in the US in 1971 by Pocket Books New York.

You know, reading this makes me realize I am the great clomping foot of nerdism.

 

[Reynard]

I'm not convinced that that's relevent, though. The Great Gatsby is a novel in which the setting was the everyday world that the author knew and presumably the readers would too, and the more detailed setting description about the particular place and society in which the novel takes place--is described in great detail by Fitzgerald, while the other stuff about the setting is merely inferred because there was no reason to spell it out.

In a fantasy or science fiction book, that's not true, and arguably one of the primary drivers of the genre is the setting and how it differs from the everyday world that the readers already know. While his advice about not going overboard on setting detail is noted, and I agree with it (again; looking at the few authors who manage to get published despite not grasping this detail, their books are dreadful to read) it also seems to go a bit too far. One of the consistent details and main attractions of this genre is exploring a setting different from the regular world.

I find it odd that I have consistently disagreed with Hobo's view of gaming, campaign management and simiilar issues, but totally agree with him when it comes to fiction.

Should that feel as wierd as it does?

 

[Pbartender]

I agree. In contrast, see the "Wheel of Time" series.

I find it interesting that this series of books has now been used as an example by both sides of the argument.

... but the truly magnificent stories... those are stories in a world.

Tolkien is only one example. Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series is a great example of a story that takes place in a world - a world that he created, planned out, and is still planning out.

Sure, there are cases gone horribly, horribly wrong, like the Wheel of Time story, where the author seems unable, or unwilling, to break off the travelogue and get down to advancing the plot...

 

[Mallus]

Maybe the author has "outgrown" his own previous work.

Yeah, the Viriconium series starts in one of the Runestaff books and ends in Calvino's Invisible Cities...

I hesitate to use the word 'outgrown', it's so pejorative... but you definitely see Harrison figuring out what that dream of cities means to him.

 

[The Shaman]

Why did you post a quote of Tolkien's that makes him sound like a petty ass?

Having never met the gentlemen myself, perhaps he was, in fact, a petty ass.

But I didn't get that from reading the quote - more of a wry amusement. Tough to tell without inflection.

Anyway . . .

Put aside refereeing the game for a moment - as a player, do you care about world-building?

I do, very much. I remember my character's first visit to the Welcome Wench and seeing Velunan fireamber wine and Keoish ale on the bill of fare, and thinking to myself, "Hmmm, I wonder where those places are, and what's there?" I have much more confidence in a referee who actually knows the answer than one who either makes something up on the spot, or says, "Well, why don't you tell me what you think should be there?"

 

[Desdichado]

I find it odd that I have consistently disagreed with Hobo's view of gaming, campaign management and simiilar issues, but totally agree with him when it comes to fiction.

Should that feel as wierd as it does?

It's just a statistical anomaly. Don't worry; soon we'll be at each other's throats again and all will be right with the world.