D&D 5E Wild Magic Surge and Tides of Chaos in Your Campaign

[bpauls]

I'm curious where DMs who have Wild Magic sorcerers in their campaigns choose to set the level of randomness via Wild Magic Surge and Tides of Chaos:

• How often do you call for a d20 Wild Magic Surge check following the use of a non-cantrip spell?
• How often do you call for a Wild Magic Surge following the use of a non-cantrip spell when the player has used Tides of Chaos (but before he or she regains the ability?)
• Does anyone "double up" and call for both a d20 Wild Magic Surge check and a separate Wild Magic Surge following the use of a non-cantrip spell when the player has used Tides of Chaos?

A bit a clarification here--I have seen threads where posters have asked for the "correct" interpretation of the rules for Wild Magic Surge and Tides of Chaos. That's not what I'm getting at here. I'm comfortable that, in keeping with the "make it your own" spirit of 5e, the rules have been left intentionally vague and up to the whim of the DM.

I have also seen threads giving advice on how often DMs should allow for rolls on the Wild Magic Surge table based on what best for the class or the most fun for the player. While these are obviously important factors (and every DM should take them into account) I am looking for a wider perspective. Sometimes what is fun for one player can be detrimental to the group experience.

If you are a DM, I would like to know where you set the "randomness dial" at your table to produce the best game for everyone. If you are a player of a Wild Magic sorcerer, what do you find works best for the entire party (not just what is the most fun or advantageous for your character?)

 

[Raunalyn]

In mine, I roll for a surge every time they cast a non-cantrip spell, and use the rules as written. However, when the sorcerer uses Tides of Chaos, I start increasing the chance of a surge every time he casts a non-cantrip spell, increasing it with each spell cast. Eventually, a surge *will* happen.

 

[pukunui]

I'm curious where DMs who have Wild Magic sorcerers in their campaigns choose to set the level of randomness via Wild Magic Surge and Tides of Chaos:

• How often do you call for a d20 Wild Magic Surge check following the use of a non-cantrip spell?
• How often do you call for a Wild Magic Surge following the use of a non-cantrip spell when the player has used Tides of Chaos (but before he or she regains the ability?)
• Does anyone "double up" and call for both a d20 Wild Magic Surge check and a separate Wild Magic Surge following the use of a non-cantrip spell when the player has used Tides of Chaos?

1) I have told the guy playing a wild mage in my campaign that he can roll for a Wild Surge every time his PC casts a level 1+ sorcerer spell. Not only that, but I've houseruled it so the chance of a Wild Surge triggering increases with the level of the spell slot used. So if you cast a spell using a 2nd level spell slot, a surge will trigger on a roll of 1 or 2 on the d20. If you cast a spell using a 7th level spell slot, a surge will trigger on a roll of 7 or less on the d20. And so on. (The idea being that the more powerful the magic, the harder it is to control.)

2) I always let Tides of Chaos recharge right away. Originally, I was playing it wrong whereby I was having him roll on the Wild Surge table as soon as I recharged Tides of Chaos. Eventually we discovered that he's not supposed to roll until the next time he casts a non-cantrip spell. We've since gone with that.

3) In light of my answers above, I would say that this is certainly a possibility, and I'm sure it's come up a few times.


I also sometimes get him to roll on the Wild Surge table at dramatically appropriate times. Like last session, the wild mage's brother (another PC) was under attack. The player had the wild mage go running to help her brother while calling out his name. I figured she'd be charged up with emotion about that and had her player roll on the table. Unfortunately, she got the one where you get shunted into the Astral Plane for a round ... which was hilarious, given the circumstances.

There was another time recently where the PC had just cast a fireball, and the player rolled a 4 on the wild surge table. Since a roll of 3 or less would've triggered one, I offered a "success at a cost": he could trigger a wild surge, but he'd have to roll on the table twice. My player loved it and ended up having the PC grow taller and have all her hair fall out. That's the second time she's gotten the grow taller result, and is now quite tall for a halfling at 3' 11"! (In comparison, her brother is still only 3' 1".)

 

[Raunalyn]

1) I have told the guy playing a wild mage in my campaign that he can roll for a Wild Surge every time his PC casts a level 1+ sorcerer spell. Not only that, but I've houseruled it so the chance of a Wild Surge triggering increases with the level of the spell slot used. So if you cast a spell using a 2nd level spell slot, a surge will trigger on a roll of 1 or 2 on the d20. If you cast a spell using a 7th level spell slot, a surge will trigger on a roll of 7 or less on the d20. And so on. (The idea being that the more powerful the magic, the harder it is to control.)

2) I always let Tides of Chaos recharge right away. Originally, I was playing it wrong whereby I was having him roll on the Wild Surge table as soon as I recharged Tides of Chaos. Eventually we discovered that he's not supposed to roll until the next time he casts a non-cantrip spell. We've since gone with that.

3) In light of my answers above, I would say that this is certainly a possibility, and I'm sure it's come up a few times.


I also sometimes get him to roll on the Wild Surge table at dramatically appropriate times. Like last session, the wild mage's brother (another PC) was under attack. The player had the wild mage go running to help her brother while calling out his name. I figured she'd be charged up with emotion about that and had her player roll on the table. Unfortunately, she got the one where you get shunted into the Astral Plane for a round ... which was hilarious, given the circumstances.

There was another time recently where the PC had just cast a fireball, and the player rolled a 4 on the wild surge table. Since a roll of 3 or less would've triggered one, I offered a "success at a cost": he could trigger a wild surge, but he'd have to roll on the table twice. My player loved it and ended up having the PC grow taller and have all her hair fall out. That's the second time she's gotten the grow taller result, and is now quite tall for a halfling at 3' 11"! (In comparison, her brother is still only 3' 1".)

I like your idea...might use it in my campaign.

In my game, it's a Gnomish Wild Mage. We're doing Dragonlance, so he's a renegade. The group was infiltrating Sanction, going through the Lords of Doom, and they encountered a large group of Draconians. In the midst of combat, the gnome triggered a wild surge...rolled a 2 on the surge table (he has to roll on the chart every round for 1 minute).

A couple of rounds later, the party and the draconians are running as fast as they can from the gnome. Absolutely hilarious.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Did the sorcerer just cast a 1st level or higher spell and Tides of Chaos is down? Wild Surge time!

There are a few reasons I play it this way as a DM.

First, the player wanted to play a wild sorcerer. They want to see wild surges! Surges are fun! Secondly, Tides is where a lot of the power of the wild sorcerer comes from. If you don't reset it often, then there's a lot of benefit left on the table. I would say that if you stick with 1 in 20 chance when Tides is down, then the class just isn't going to be as powerful. Nor as fun!

 

[pukunui]

A couple of rounds later, the party and the draconians are running as fast as they can from the gnome. Absolutely hilarious.

I know the Wild Magic Surge table isn't for everyone but I personally love it, and I'm really grateful that someone chose to play one in my campaign. This character was also in my previous campaign (I ran Legacy of the Crystal Shard before, and now I'm running Scourge of the Sword Coast ~ two of the PCs are from the previous campaign, the rest are new), and there have been plenty of fun times thanks to that table.

There was a time when the PCs were being harassed by thugs, and the wild mage triggered the surge that dealt everyone necrotic damage. I had the thugs run away and later the PCs overheard some of them talking in a tavern and it was clear they were suffering from ennui.

Another time she turned as blue as a smurf.

The best time was when she'd rowed out alone onto an icy lake in order to blast a pirate ship moored out on a long pier. She successfully burned its sails and rigging with a scorching ray, but that triggered a wild surge fireball. Even if she'd survived the blast, it destroyed her rowboat, plunging her body into the freezing cold water.

That turned into a major plot point for that character, though, as she ended up getting raised from the dead by a cleric of Lathander, and she has since found herself to be one of the Morninglord's Chosen during the Sundering.


The only time I've regretted a surge was when I had her roll when upon being reduced to 0 hp. We ended up with a pentadrone modron in the PCs' midst just as they were about to break into an evil wizard's office. Since none of them could communicate with it, it just saw the breaking and entering and went to stop them, and it ended up completely overshadowing the encounter I'd actually had planned. Since then, any time he gets the modron result, I just have him reroll ...

 

[Minigiant]

I don't have one in my campaign but here's my plan.

Wild Mages get a Wildness level. The player gets to pick a Wildness level between 1-20 at PC creation.

Your Wildness level affects the wild mage like this.

• You subtract your Wildness level from your roll on Wild Magic Surge.
• You get Tides Of Chaos recharge triggers after 20-X total casting of any sorcerer spell.
• If Wild Mage Surge and Tides Of Chaos trigger on the same spell, you adjust your Wildness Level up or down by 1.

Fun fun silly willy narf

 

[ad_hoc]

Did the sorcerer just cast a 1st level or higher spell and Tides of Chaos is down? Wild Surge time!

There are a few reasons I play it this way as a DM.

First, the player wanted to play a wild sorcerer. They want to see wild surges! Surges are fun! Secondly, Tides is where a lot of the power of the wild sorcerer comes from. If you don't reset it often, then there's a lot of benefit left on the table. I would say that if you stick with 1 in 20 chance when Tides is down, then the class just isn't going to be as powerful. Nor as fun!

I agree with this.

If the table doesn't want wild surges then that should be handled during character creation.

I do like the caveat that the DM gets to control when it happens. I take that to allow the wild mage to cast a spell at a non-pivotal time and have things be fine. If a wild surge would just slow down the game or be boring then it doesn't happen.

No one in my game, including the wild mage, has read the wild surge table. The result is a complete surprise for all the players. It's a blast (sometimes literally).

I love the concept and execution of the class. The only thing I dislike is that the surges don't scale. A fireball at low levels will wipe the party out. A unicorn will save the day (it happened today actually at level 4). Hopefully a tiered surge table is made at some point.

That might be a good project to take on.

 

[PnPgamer]

We went strictly by raw, and my dm called for surce everytime chaos was used, plus everytime i casted normally. Meaning that i could have double surge occur if i rolled a 1 on a d20 and had chaos used.
Have i told about the time when i exploded twice as a fireball within 3 rounds?

 

[Sword of Spirit]

My initial plan was to allow the player to give me a percentage from 0%-100% at character creation. When it says in the wild mage description "the DM can" I will use that percentage. So if they roll a 1 on their d20, and then they roll under that percentage, they get a wild surge. If they use Tides of Chaos and then cast a spell, roll that percentage to see if they get a wild surge (I suppose I could double up and have them roll a d20 for a second chance too, but it never came up).

The first player that played a wild mage went with 100%. Not only that, but she would do everything she could to attempt to always get wild surges. Eventually we decided she could just use her Strength (Athletics) to jump, or her Dexterity (Acrobatics) to do some stunt with her movement, and then she'd have her wild surge prepped. Since you can literally find opportunities to give yourself advantage without even spending an action, I eventually dropped that cosmetic requirement and said she could just use her Tides of Chaos whenever she wanted for free--since that is effectively possible anyway.*

The funny thing is that she almost always forgot to use Tides of Chaos for anything useful, and generally forgot she had metamagic and the Lucky feat. She just cast spells and wild surged.

After seeing the effects of frequent wild surges all the way through Lost Mine of Phandelver (including one of the dreaded point blank fireballs), I've changed my default plan for the future.

Now, I'm just going to leave it at 100% for anyone unless they specifically plead to have a lower percentage. It was fun.

(Also, be aware that the subclass needs the ability to give yourself advantage repeatedly in order to compete in power with other sorcerers. If you don't have the wild surge that Tides of Chaos preps go off at least most of the time, then they aren't getting the opportunity to use advantage back, and they will suffer for power).

* Story-wise, I decided that when you use Tides of Chaos to give yourself advantage you are basically opening up a floodgate of wild magic and channeling it into the advantage. (Which also fills you with so much wildness that your risk of having a surge is heightened until you discharge it or until the next day). If you just want to let that rush of energy in to "power-up" a wild surge without channeling it for advantage, sure. It seems more appropriate to close your eyes and concentrate, or open your palms and relax your body, or clench your fists...or just about anything you might associate with letting the magic charge-up, than it does to have you do a randomly unnecessary back flip in place just so you can make a d20 roll as part of movement.