Wildshape + Animal Growth =/= huge size

[Power_Munchkin]

Check my reasoning here.

Wildshape into a large animal. Cast animal growth on self (druids gain become whatever type the wildshape into, check).

Druid gains benefits of the spell, but does NOT become a huge-sized animal. Why? Because magical effects increasing size do not stack.

Animal growth spell and wildshape are magical effects. Why? Because spell and supernatural effects go away in antimagic field.

Does that sound about right?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Maybe you get a large (not huge) creature with a +8 enlargement bonus to Strength, +4 enlargement bonus to Constitution...

 

[The Souljourner]

No no no no no.

Wildshape changes your *form* not your *size*. Any size change is a side effect of the new form, and not a direct result of the spell. If wildshape said "you change into an animal, and grow one size category" then yes, they wouldn't stack. However, it doesn't say that, it just says "You change into the form of an animal".

Divine Might increases your size one category, because it explicitly says it does.

Enlarge person increases your size one category, because it explicitly says it does.

Thus, the size changes from Divine Might and Enlarge Person do not stack.

-The Souljourner

 

[WizarDru]

Doesn't matter, since a Wildshaped druid doesn't change his type to animal, just his form. Since Animal Growth only works on animals, not druids who have assumed the shape of one, it's a moot point.

 

[Corwin]

No no no no no.

Yes yes yes yes yes.

Wildshape changes your *form* not your *size*.

Actually, it does *both*.

Any size change is a side effect of the new form, and not a direct result of the spell.

It's not a "side effect". It's an explicit part of the spell. Accidently burning down a house killing baddies with a fire-based spell is a "side effect". Getting to be a Large creature by polymorphing is not.

If wildshape said "you change into an animal, and grow one size category" then yes, they wouldn't stack. However, it doesn't say that, it just says "You change into the form of an animal".

You need an extremely sharp knife to split that hair. Especially since you left out the entirety of the sentance you're quoting... "In addition, she gains the ability to take the shape of a Large animal at 8th level..."

I see the ability explicitly stating that a Medium-size druid can increase their size to Large using this ability.

If the Medium-size druid were to transform into a Medium-size (or smaller) animal, then yes, the animal growth spell would indeed increase their size, IMO. Becuase they didn't increase their size already.

Divine Might increases your size one category, because it explicitly says it does.

Enlarge person increases your size one category, because it explicitly says it does.

Just like the ability (as I just quoted above).

Thus, the size changes from Divine Might and Enlarge Person do not stack.

Any spell that increases size doesn't stack. Nowhere does it restrict the restriction () to only a very specific phrase that must be written into the text.

The text for animal growth states...

"Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack."

Note that it does not say anything about specific phrases. Polymorphing into a Large creature made you bigger. Simple, IMO. How can that be overlooked or tossed aside by tenuous rationalizations just to get a double bump in size?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Doesn't matter, since a Wildshaped druid doesn't change his type to animal, just his form. Since Animal Growth only works on animals, not druids who have assumed the shape of one, it's a moot point.

According to 3.5 SRD on Polymorph:

"This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin. The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level. You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine, nor can you cause a subject to assume an incorporeal or gaseous form. The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form." [emphasis added]

Since Wildshape is essentially like Polymorph, then, yes, a druid can become Large and grow bigger with Animal Growth.

 

[Corwin]

Just so we can see what we are talking about in crunchy numbers...

A 9th-level Druid can become a Huge Dire Lion, Huge Polar Bear, Huge Dire Ape or Huge (Giant) Octopus.

A 9th-level Druid (12 HD+) can be a Huge Dire Bear.

A 15th-level Druid (16 HD+) can be a Gargantuan Triceratops.

A 15th-level Druid (18 HD+) can become a Gargantuan Tyranosaurus Rex.

Keep in mind that Animal growth also gives him DR 10/magic, +4 saves, and the stat bumps. Plus, all size and Strength related abililties of the animal go up with the size (check out those dinos, frex ).

 

[Camarath]

Wouldn't a Druid need a Silenced and Still Animal Growth spell too be able to cast that spell on hiself while Wildshaped?

 

[Benben]

The Natural Spell feat allows casting while wildshaped.

 

[The Souljourner]

You need an extremely sharp knife to split that hair. Especially since you left out the entirety of the sentance you're quoting... "In addition, she gains the ability to take the shape of a Large animal at 8th level..."

Can you become a large housecat then? That's a large animal.

Answer: no, you can't.

Just like the ability (as I just quoted above).

No, the ability you quoted above does not say "you grow larger".

What the ability says is, you may take the shape of animals that are naturally size large. It's a lessening of the restriction on the ability.

The ability is "polymorph into animals". Period. Polymorph says see alter self, alter self says you take the form, including natural attacks and natural size.

Spells that increase size are those that say "you increase size". Wildshape does not, therefor it is not a size increasing spell. Period.

It's just not. There's the real world definition of increasing size and the spell effect definition of increasing size. Polymorph fits the former but not the latter.

-The Souljourner