D&D General Wizard vs Fighter - the math

[Neonchameleon]

Is your point that Spontaneous casting would have been superior to prepped casting but for the delay in gaining new spell levels and starting each new spell level with only 1 spell of that level known?

No. My point is that we never got to see how spontaneous casting compared to prepared casting with a bigger spellbook in 3.x because the sorcerer was so badly crippled.

 

[Tony Vargas]

No. My point is that we never got to see how spontaneous casting compared to prepared casting with a bigger spellbook in 3.x because the sorcerer was so badly crippled.

OK. Does that in any way imply that prepping daily and casting spontaneously isn't strictly superior to prepping daily or casting spontaneously?

 

[Neonchameleon]

OK. Does that in any way imply that prepping daily and casting spontaneously isn't strictly superior to prepping daily or casting spontaneously?

All else being equal? No. But how much you can prep and how much you know are both important factors. And yes this is the other problem with both 5e wizard and 2014 sorcerer; the wizard can prep more spells at one time than the sorcerer knows.

 

[Vaalingrade]

OK. Does that in any way imply that prepping daily and casting spontaneously isn't strictly superior to prepping daily or casting spontaneously?

Not having to do daily homework and try to guess what the DM is going to do is pretty awesome. It was awesome enough that the designers thought it justified loss of a whole level of casting, no metamagic, and no free feats.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Not having to do daily homework and try to guess what the DM is going to do is pretty awesome. It was awesome enough that the designers thought it justified loss of a whole level of casting, no metamagic, and no free feats.

I mean, you don't /have/ to, you can just settle on one slate of spells and only change them when you get a giant flashing signal from the DM or something.

I guess that'd be an example of "balancing character power with player paperwork."

 

[Vaalingrade]

I mean, you don't /have/ to, you can just settle on one slate of spells and only change them when you get a giant flashing signal from the DM or something.

I guess that'd be an example of "balancing character power with player paperwork."

3e was still deep in the concept that player suffering was a viable balancing agent.

See also the Paladin getting a massive boost to saves and getting immunity to some of the worst things in the game in exchange for making everyone else have less fun, or the monk getting a shed load of minor ribbon abilities and being able to punch people effectively in exchange for the Drunken Master making absolutely zero sense because the weird comedic drunk guy is expected to be an exemplar of honor and staidness.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Paladin getting a massive boost to saves and getting immunity to some of the worst things in the game in exchange for making everyone else have less fun

Wait, if making everyone else have less fun was a balancing factor in 3e, then the most powerful class in the game should have been Bard

 

[EzekielRaiden]

All of the issues are fairly simple to fix. We can imagine hypothetical better systems or we can discuss how to adjust so that the system we have works. Since I'm a pragmatic person, I'll choose the latter every time.

Whereas I consider it very impractical to try to defy how actual people use a thing, and to instead consider ways that the rules can be adjusted so they fit the things people are already going to do.

It would seem WotC agrees with me, to some extent. See: playtest Warlock.

Telling people, "You're all doing it wrong!" is not a particularly effective tactic in my experience. God in Heaven, I wish it were.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Wait, if making everyone else have less fun was a balancing factor in 3e, then the most powerful class in the game should have been Bard

You'd be surprised what you could do with a bard and a little system knowledge in 3.5. Such as giving the party a +4/+4 Inspire Courage for an entire dungeon at level 3.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Wait, if making everyone else have less fun was a balancing factor in 3e, then the most powerful class in the game should have been Bard

You didn't have fun having a ton of buffs and never having to fight things with minds again if you act first?