D&D General Wizard vs Fighter - the math

[Oofta]

This thread is titled « Wizard vs. Fighter - the Math » What did you think it was going to be about?

Hey if the thread title is Wizard vs. Fighter, maybe don’t complain about how it’s about how Fighters can’t compete with wizards.

So I'm just supposed to shut up if I disagree that fighters drool and wizards rule? Never state that things work for me and try to get to the root cause of why?

 

[FrozenNorth]

Bears and tigers attacking humans, stampeding elephants, orca's attacking ships off the coast of spain. Sharks snacking on diver's, octopi with 100 ft tentacle reach feeling around on the top of boats. In fact there is one swamp in asia where the tigers can't be hunted effectively by humans and they'll snatch people out of boats. They aren't afraid of humans because humans have demonstrated themselves able to follow them back into the swamp. All of these things and more have happened in the real world. and if a pack of wolves (real world) can be smart enough to observe and decide to attack only the animals after the people leave or even are smart enough to avoid the dangerous people, give your magical monster's the same level of intelligence. If animals fought with the same tactics I see in most games , all predator animals in our world would be extinct by now.

All of those 100% ineffective against Leomund’s Invincible Hut.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

All of those 100% ineffective against Leomund’s Invincible Hut.

Fair. My number one spell to ban.

 

[Minigiant]

That sentence makes no sense. One main reason to use gritty rest rules is to make it easier to push PCs so the casters can't go nova every encounter.

Because casters will become ultraconservative and quit earlier out of fear of random encounters.

Casters have too many daily spells and too few "encounters" spells in 3e and 5e.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Realism makes bad movies and worse games.

This is both true and untrue. Yes, an adventure that tied itself into knots trying to be realistic wouldn’t be fun, but D&D is a game, and the players need to be able to make decisions based on the information they have, without decisions being undercut.

Even if escaping from an army of orcs may make for s fun adventure, being captured by an army that appears out of nowhere and leaves no sign of its passage undercuts the decision to have a character scout.

 

[FrozenNorth]

While I agree on some level we are back to verisimilitude.
You can't go completely unrealistic.
For a lot of people it matters where the ships come from, because it helps understand the conflict and the stakes.

Good point. My son’s Rogue Mastermind might want to attempt to undermine the neogi’s allies building ships for them, which they can’t do if the ship’s appear in thin air based on plot convenience.

 

[Oofta]

Because casters will become ultraconservative and quit earlier out of fear of random encounters.

Casters have too many daily spells and too few "encounters" spells in 3e and 5e.

If they quit they don't achieve their goals.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Because casters will become ultraconservative and quit earlier out of fear of random encounters.

Not in my experience. But perhaps they shouldn’t be playing a game about adventurers facing dangers if they are so risk averse?

Casters have too many daily spells and too few "encounters" spells in 3e and 5e.

Casters literally got powerful attack cantrips in 5e, they are not helpless without their levelled spells.

In any case, they will not turn 5e into 4e and make spells encounter powers so pining for that is pointless.

 

[Oofta]

Good point. My son’s Rogue Mastermind might want to attempt to undermine the neogi’s allies building ships for them, which they can’t do if the ship’s appear in thin air based on plot convenience.

Sounds like the setup for a cool scenario. A small strike team going in to find plans for and later on sabotage a shipyard. The plot to many movies.

 

[Oofta]

Not in my experience. But perhaps they shouldn’t be playing a game about adventurers facing dangers if they are so risk averse?


Casters literally got powerful attack cantrips in 5e, they are not helpless without their levelled spells.

In any case, they will not turn 5e into 4e and make spells encounter powers so pining for that is pointless.

If you want to play a version of D&D that plays like 4E, you should play 4E.