D&D 5E (2024) Wizard vs Sorcerer In-Depth Analysis (2024)

[FrogReaver]

Deception should default to an Intelligence skill. Creating a replica that is convincing enough to fool the experts requires deep intellectual scholarly comprehension of the relevant subject matters. Likewise to weave a consistent web of lies for a confidence scheme that can survive scrutiny from professionals, requires Intelligence.

Charisma Persuasion is something different. It is a social skills check, addressing the needs and concerns of persons, after all the information is known. Intelligence Deception is about fabricating false information.

Or, for the sake of art and entertainment, Intelligence Deception is to formulate a technically convincing simulation, including writing a novel or painting an optical illusion.

For art, I always make two checks. One for technical skill, and one for viewer enjoyment. For example, a dance would be Athletics for technical, then Performance for the artistic masterpiece.

As with most things, there's elements of both present. There's a planning and an execution element. Charisma is definitely the social execution stat. Intelligence would be the planning aspects and also what I would use for execution of a forgery. The thing is we usually don't roll about the planning aspects, we usually just roll to determine the execution.

 

[DragonLancer]

I don't know if this is what you are looking for but the following has been my opinion in the Wizard / Sorcerer divide since 3rd edition:

Sorcerer is your combat caster. 100%. You don't use Sorcerer to be an Illusionist or Enchanter or Necromancer. You can but they aren't built for it exactly. Sorcerers by the way the class works is designed to be a spellslinger, throwing damage spells around the battlefield. You don't take this class to be the knowledge character. They are largely a one trick pony and fill that specific party role. They can double as the party diplomat if the party lacks another character who can do it better.

The Wizard on the other hand is your utility caster. Back in the good old days of 1st and 2nd, Wizards would add in some combat spells but were largely there to cast the utility spells and that hasn't changed. It's part of the Vancian magic system. Now that Sorcerer exists, Wizard focuses on the magic detection, charm spells, divinations, illusions...etc. Opposing Sorcerers, Wizards are the knowledge character as they are built around that Intelligence bonus.

Of the two I prefer Sorcerer. I don't mind the fire and forget Vancian magic system but I never, even back in 1st and 2nd edition, liked having to memorise specific spells that often ended up as dead slots because their role never came up or was overcome in other ways. Sorcerer makes for a much more interesting if one sided character build in my opinion.

 

[Minigiant]

I have no idea how either of these classes embodies either of those things moreso than the other. Maybe you can explain it more clearly.

Planning: Coming up with a very strong pan and executing it

Like the AOE Cloud or Spikes with a buffed Push spell to force a ton of damages running into it

Chaos: The opposite of Tactical. Your options are reduced. How strong are your bad options.

A caster forced into melee or faced with a foe who is immune or resistant to all but 3 damage types.

 

[FrogReaver]

Planning: Coming up with a very strong pan and executing it

Like the AOE Cloud or Spikes with a buffed Push spell to force a ton of damages running into it

Chaos: The opposite of Tactical. Your options are reduced. How strong are your bad options.

A caster forced into melee or faced with a foe who is immune or resistant to all but 3 damage types.

Okay but sorcerer and wizard seem equal on both those axises?

 

[Mephista]

I'm a bit unclear on why you suggest that scroll scribing benefits the Wizard more? In 2024, all that's needed is you have the spell prepared, arcana or cartographer tool proficiency and the gold/time to create the scroll. Wizards don't do this cheaper or faster anymore.

Its related to how the two classes prepare spells. Wizards can rearrange their prepared spell list every short rest. Sorcerers need to wait for a level up. This lets the wizard prepare a spell, scribe it, then swap out the spell for a new one to scribe. This gives the wizard a larger pool of niche spells on demand than the sorcerer, who tends to not pick up said niche spells.

I know they're not called known vs prepared casters anymore, but the rules for scribing scrolls absolutely benefits prepared casters more than known ones.

EDIT: Side note on scrolls: Can't a Sorcerer with quicken use the magic action on a spell scroll and then cast a leveled spell with his bonus action from quicken? It's not clear to me whether this interaction works or not.

EDIT2: On further research is appears this does not work due to quicken metamagic restriction of you casting more than 1 leveled spell, coupled with scrolls technically working by you casting the spell from the scroll.

Yeah, sadly, magic items can't adopt anything like that. Base caster options only - even your proficency bonus is set to the lowest level possible to cast the spell.

Only when your only metric is spellslots per day.

Sorcerers get Sorcery Points, Innate Sorcery and if my suggestion was followed then the ability to give out PB Heroic Inspirations per short rest from the Musician Feat. I think if you factor in all resources that sorcerers are just as much, if not moreso marathon runners, the primary difference is that they can also sprint faster.

Well, yeah, I'm bringing up spellslots per day, because that's an advantage of the Wizard to compare to the Sorcerer's metamagic and innate sorcery. Both marathon running and sprinting are Olympic sports. One is not better than the other; however, they are very different skill sets. One is all about the burst, and the second is about how long you can last.

If we had, say..... fireball casting as a fantasy-Olympic sport, then Sorcery Points, Innate Sorcery, and Metamagics mean that every individual fireball the sorcerer casts? Its almost always going to be better than the equivalent cast by the wizard. Bigger boom. However, wizards will end up casting more fireballs per day than the sorcerer, even though the sorcerer's individual fireballs are consistently better.

Thus, Nova vs Sustain.

Your conclusion was "battle vs exploration" which I don't think is correct. Its a quantity vs quality question in battle, and then "exploration vs social" out of battle.

I assume this must be a reference to the level 5 spell memorization feature.

A bit of that, a bit of just being able to swap out their spell lists daily, a bit of magic item options. Swapping spells out to prep for an encounter is an advantage of the wizard.

The thing is Wizards don't typically have that many known spells outside their prepared and most of those are likely going to rituals.

34 at minimum, which is 2 more than Sorcerers at their best, with the option to get more.

And not always rituals. They'll also be a fair number of spells chosen specifically to be kept to the side, then prepared for when the specific situations they're meant for come up.

 

[Ashrym]

I'm a bit unclear on why you suggest that scroll scribing benefits the Wizard more? In 2024, all that's needed is you have the spell prepared, arcana or cartographer tool proficiency and the gold/time to create the scroll. Wizards don't do this cheaper or faster anymore.

Wizards don't need to craft scrolls cheaper or faster to have an advantage here. It's the needing to have the spell prepared prepared requirement that gives that advantage because wizards have a bigger spell list and the ability to swap out prepared spells far more easily than a sorcerer.

I can swap out situational spells during downtime on a wizard and make scroll then swap them back out in a way I can't do on a sorcerer to leverage all those spells in the spell book better.

For example, I don't prep Knock on a sorcerer because it's too situational when picking locks is something a character can do with tools and a skill check anyway, but on a wizard I can make a scroll or three during downtime for situational use and not worry about prepping it most of the time.

I see scrolls as a way for wizards to expand readily available versatility.

 

[Minigiant]

Okay but sorcerer and wizard seem equal on both those axises?

Sorcerer is better at Combat Chaos with more cantrips, metamagic, and better weapons.

Wizard is slightly better at Planning due to better access to spells but Sorcerer has better plans due to Metamagic.

 

[Zardnaar]

Wizards don't need to craft scrolls cheaper or faster to have an advantage here. It's the needing to have the spell prepared prepared requirement that gives that advantage because wizards have a bigger spell list and the ability to swap out prepared spells far more easily than a sorcerer.

I can swap out situational spells during downtime on a wizard and make scroll then swap them back out in a way I can't do on a sorcerer to leverage all those spells in the spell book better.

For example, I don't prep Knock on a sorcerer because it's too situational when picking locks is something a character can do with tools and a skill check anyway, but on a wizard I can make a scroll or three during downtime for situational use and not worry about prepping it most of the time.

I see scrolls as a way for wizards to expand readily available versatility.

They theoretically have more spells.

Using republished adventures 0 scrolls have turned up yet lvl 3 and there's no magic shop nearby.

I have put in vendors where a wizard could buy some spells at least.

DM and campaign dependent. Same with crafting.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Wizards don't need to craft scrolls cheaper or faster to have an advantage here. It's the needing to have the spell prepared prepared requirement that gives that advantage because wizards have a bigger spell list and the ability to swap out prepared spells far more easily than a sorcerer.

I can swap out situational spells during downtime on a wizard and make scroll then swap them back out in a way I can't do on a sorcerer to leverage all those spells in the spell book better.

For example, I don't prep Knock on a sorcerer because it's too situational when picking locks is something a character can do with tools and a skill check anyway, but on a wizard I can make a scroll or three during downtime for situational use and not worry about prepping it most of the time.

I see scrolls as a way for wizards to expand readily available versatility.

Yes. Since spell scrolls are very cheap, it is a big advantage.

 

[Mephista]

Wizards do have more spells without adding scrolls or books, though the amount is small. They start with 6 known spells, then gain additional 2 per level, and the spell school grants them an additional 1 per new spell level when they get subclass. At level 3, they have 12 known spells. A sorcerer starts with 2, and has 10 by level three, thanks to subclass. By level five, sorcerer has 15 spells, but wizard 17. Level nine? Sorcerer 24 spells versus a wizard's 27.

From here on out, however, wizards gather spells faster since sorcerers lose their bonus subclass spells. At level eleven, sorcerers have 26 spells and only gains another 6 by level twenty. Wizards have 32 at level eleven, and gain another 21 by level twenty.

Admittedly, these are spells in the spell book for the wizard, and not prepared spells. Sorcerer blows the wizard out of the water when we talk about spells prepared at once, its not even a competition. But in terms of spells known, even just taking leveling into account? The wizard wins.