WizKids New Star Wars License

[armac]

Sorry Dee, but I think you're way off-base here.

(I'll state my bias now before responding. A bunch of you at the Ennies may have met me as I handed out Rocketmen promos in 2005, and HorrorClix promos last year. I've been the Regional Envoy for Canada for the last three years, although that term is coming to an end. Also I have been a moderator on their forums for most of that time period as well. I ignored the comments at first, but more and more of what I am reading has made me decide to respond.)

WizKids has no intention of leaving the hobby stores, and only going into the mass market stores, and they have no intention of abandoning miniature games. MechWarrior, as you stated, is going through changes that I have no real knowledge of so I'll leave your speculation as it is. However, your comments for HeroClix are absurd. They have no intention of cancelling it.

While the switching to Diamond/Alliance as sole distributors may hurt some markets as some stores won't want to switch, the comic shops already deal with Diamond and that is where a lot of HeroClix sales come from, and where a lot of events are run.

You claim that there are only around a dozen HeroClix players in Ottawa. Please swing by the Hobby Centre on a Saturday. During the two events each Saturday, we probably have about 12-18 different players playing, and you'll see different faces on any given Saturday. Don't only go by the results you see on the registration pages, there are a lot of kids showing up that haven't had their registration go through. The New Guy Nights that WizKids has been running for HeroClix has really helped bring in new young players to the point that we really don't have the space for them in the gaming area. I also know that our player base isn't the same player base as some of the other stores in the city.

As for your comments that there are no tournaments for WK's BSG line in Canada. You're right. For whatever reasons, the game was never licensed in Canada. They aren't permitted to run sanctioned tournaments here. You won't find any. (And to nit-pick, BSG preceded HorrorClix so you can't point at it as their newest game before Star Wars.)

As a moderator on their forums, I heard a different reason given for the shutdown of their forums as the distributor annoucement is made. They have been trying to fix their forums to stop a problem of spam-bots posting all sorts of inappropriate threads in their forums. Add to that weather problems at the same time as they were trying to do the upgrade, and the forums ended up being down for the weekend - longer than they wanted. You can believe your conspiracy theories if you like. (Although I am curious to hear what brand manager you're referring to when you say that you heard that from him/her.)

I look forward to the Star Wars game and will pick some of it up. It probably won't pull me away from HeroClix though. I think it will do quite well if the ships look anywhere as nice as the Pirates ships do. The price point being low, and the fact that the rules and everything you need to play are contained in each pack has really helped Pirates, and should do the same for Star Wars.

Dee, I know that you're not happy with how MechWarrior has run, its future direction, and how you feel that you've been treated as a volunteer for WizKids and as a member of their forums, but I think your experiences have made you just as biased against WizKids as I am favourable towards them.

To the moderators here, I have no intentions of starting a flamewar in here, but I couldn't really let everything that was said go unchallenged. If I feel things are escalating, I'll stop posting in this thread.

Dee, if you want to talk about this, send me an email at angusmaclennan at rogers dot com and I can respond there, or I can send you my phone number and chat there.

Angus

 

[Mark CMG]

Angus

Hiya Angus! Long time. How's your flag flying? Drop me an email sometime. See ya!

 

[DeeEight]

However, your comments for HeroClix are absurd. They have no intention of cancelling it.

Please show me where I said they were intending to cancel heroclix? I think you have me confused with someone else in this thread. If anything, heroclix is likely to be the only miniatures game they keep producing once they get rid of their other clix lines.

As for your comments that there are no tournaments for WK's BSG line in Canada. You're right. For whatever reasons, the game was never licensed in Canada. They aren't permitted to run sanctioned tournaments here. You won't find any. (And to nit-pick, BSG preceded HorrorClix so you can't point at it as their newest game before Star Wars.)

So why then are there so few BSG events even run in the usa where presumably they do have a license. And so few horrorclix ones also. 133 BSG and 215 Horrorclix events scheduled from now till April 1st versus over 5,000 for heroclix and over 2,000 for mechwarrior. That's not exactly a sign of healthy interest for BSG or horrorclix. (and to get to the nit-pick, they hit the stores pretty close together... I remember they were giving out samples for both to envoys at about the same time)

(Although I am curious to hear what brand manager you're referring to when you say that you heard that from him/her.)

Its one for your favourite line...

Dee, I know that you're not happy with how MechWarrior has run, its future direction, and how you feel that you've been treated as a volunteer for WizKids and as a member of their forums, but I think your experiences have made you just as biased against WizKids as I am favourable towards them.

I probably wouldn't be AS biased if how they treated envoys wasn't just a reflection (and there are many other envoys who feel the same, I'm not the only one they retired over being critical of wizkids) of how they treat players and customers in general (at least of the mechwarrior line). But when you got people like Jonas in charge, who (and I could show you some doozy of emails from him) one day is shaking your hand and the next sticking the knife in your back, its not too surprising. Would I be correct in assuming you don't have to deal with him much ?

To the moderators here, I have no intentions of starting a flamewar in here, but I couldn't really let everything that was said go unchallenged. If I feel things are escalating, I'll stop posting in this thread.

Compared to how I've seen some of the mods behave.... we're being perfectly civil and following the rules.

Anyways I'm late for the FIRST cyberpunk game hound's run in years that's actually going to develop into a full regular campaign, and I'm bringing the KFC.

 

[D.Shaffer]

Or for that matter... you've primarily dealt directly with wizkids for the past two years (as I have) so you know firsthand what's "really" been going on right?

Disregarding the 'You dont know what's REALLY going on, so shutup' type sarcasm here, look at it from my point of view. An announcement is made, and someone comes in spouting vitriol and ranting about a conspiracy from the company to lie and cheat people. Combine this is a tendency toward stating your opinion on how things happened as a fact. How do you THINK the average guy is going to take it?

This, combined with a low post count, makes it look like you showed up just so could rant about how evil Wizkids is, making it appear like a vendetta. You obivously have had issues with them, but you arent exactly describing things in a way that show you should be believed, here.

 

[DeeEight]

Disregarding the 'You dont know what's REALLY going on, so shutup' type sarcasm here, look at it from my point of view.

Yeah sorry about that, but if someone else has better info that what wizkids feeds out as announcements, or than how they've progressed with their staff for the past two years, I'd LOVE (really) to see it. Another "game industry" exec I know has told me they'll be announcing the end of mechwarrior this summer but its not someone in this thread and others have pointed out that this wasn't the greatest move by hasbro and why that's so.

This, combined with a low post count, makes it look like you showed up just so could rant about how evil Wizkids is, making it appear like a vendetta. You obivously have had issues with them, but you arent exactly describing things in a way that show you should be believed, here.

I actually showed up before their announcement and it wasn't why I finally registered an account. I didn't even know they'd announced this move to do a star wars game as it happens until seeing this thread. I only pay attention to mechwarrior really for their other products and they've been rather lacking in announcements over there the past few months.

 

[armac]

Please show me where I said they were intending to cancel heroclix? I think you have me confused with someone else in this thread. If anything, heroclix is likely to be the only miniatures game they keep producing once they get rid of their other clix lines.

In post 17, you wrote:

[...] I'd like to point out that wizkids is moving away from the small independant gaming/hobby/comic stores who represent most of their sales to date, to the mass-merchant end of things (kmart/walmart/toysrus) and that includes getting rid of all the lines involving minatures like MW and Horrorclix and likely heroclix too.

Now, I may have misunderstood what you were saying, but if their goal is to get rid of HeroClix, my interpretation is that you thought that they would be cancelling it.

Personally, I don't see their goal as being to get rid of any of their games. I think their goal is to succeed in them and make money. When the game isn't making them money, then they have to think what they want to do with that game.

Its one for your favourite line...

That would really surprise me, and it would go against everything I heard. I really can't see any of their management making a comment like that in regards to the forums being down.

I probably wouldn't be AS biased if how they treated envoys wasn't just a reflection (and there are many other envoys who feel the same, I'm not the only one they retired over being critical of wizkids) of how they treat players and customers in general (at least of the mechwarrior line). But when you got people like Jonas in charge, who (and I could show you some doozy of emails from him) one day is shaking your hand and the next sticking the knife in your back, its not too surprising. Would I be correct in assuming you don't have to deal with him much ?

Most of my contact with Jonas has been in person at conventions. I have no problems with any dealings that I've had with him, and get along with him fine. I won't speak to anyone else's dealings with another person when I have no knowledge of them, so I won't comment further.

Anyways I'm late for the FIRST cyberpunk game hound's run in years that's actually going to develop into a full regular campaign, and I'm bringing the KFC.

Now that sounds like fun. Hope it went well. I haven't played Cyberpunk for around 15 years... Sigh.

 

[philreed]

This sounds like a great game. For $8 or $10 two players can get all they need to play. Sounds like a win.

 

[FATDRAGONGAMES]

This sounds like a great game. For $8 or $10 two players can get all they need to play. Sounds like a win.

Plus it is MUCH cheaper to buy into than SW Starship Battles from WOTC. My son and I blew over $70 Thanksgiving weekend just to be able to get started with that-wish I had known about this then....

 

[Steel_Wind]

Actually, they aren't foam; they're hard styrene. They'll come on cards that are roughly the size, thickness, and consistency of credit cards; you punch 'em out and assemble them. Same "technology" and material that they use for the Pirates game. While the shapes themselves are somewhat limited (you're making semi-3D models out of 2D plastic cards), the printing is probably of higher quality than the paintjobs on the plastic minis.

Clearly, they argued that this is a card game, not a minis game, and are using that technicality in the license. Interesting that this makes the third company to have the Star Wars CCG license (after Decipher and WotC).

Actually, even then, it's not clear.

You have to be famiiar with the Star Wars license - and I am, having had a client who had a license for miniatures through LucasFilm. (Apart from being involved in computer games, I'm also a practicing lawyer.)

It is true that most licenses are "purpose licenses" - i.e, you get this license for a card game.

And then there is Star Wars.

The property is the most complex licensed property in all of toys and gaming. The miniatures license alone cover a vast range of scales, materials and assemblies. Because there are so many toys, models, games and collectibles for Star Wars, the license you get is so specifically narrow and defined that it is not a surprise at all that Hasbro finds themselves competing against a similar licensed product in the same retail channel.

As for going to war against Lucas - that's just insane.

Not only do I fully expect this license is non-overlapping, to suggest otherwise through lawyers would damage your ongoing business relationship with Lucas such that it would be a permanent disaster to even go there. Considering the money involved? Not even close. Don't do it.

Whatever the case, this thread actually made me go look at Pirates :CSG more closely and I really liked what I saw! The original Pirates of the Spanish Main - Unlimited series are for sale with some retailers on eBay for a buck a pack. 50 packs for $50. That's a really awesome deal for a fun game that is extremely kid friendly.

I picked up 50 PotSM boosters to play with my eight year old son on eBay. He's extremely excited to be able to put these together and play with them. We're working on making a big blue "Ocean" mat now. Unlike some of the terrains I've constructed - this one is easy so he can help.

His StarWars minis have been put aside and he's all about Pirates right now.

I'm looking forward to what Wizkids does with this game. The play styles and collectible / constructible elements to their past games have been really quite cool and very kid friendly.

I urge those who have not bought a pack of Pirates to keep an open mind about this product line.

 

[Glyfair]

Whatever the case, this thread actually made me go look at Pirates :CSG more closely and I really liked what I saw! The original Pirates of the Spanish Main - Unlimited series are for sale with some retailers on eBay for a buck a pack. 50 packs for $50. That's a really awesome deal for a fun game that is extremely kid friendly.

I'd also like the recommend the second dip WizKids made into the Constructable Strategy Game pool, Rocketmen. In my opinion, the gameplay for this game is superior to that of Pirates. Unfortunately, the space opera serials weren't a big draw and the game only had two sets. Still, they should be available pretty cheaply. Find the "secret decoder rings" that were part of the approved play program, and you can decode the secret messages on the unique character cards.