D&D 4E Women in 4E

[D.Shaffer]

I don't play WOW but that sounds familiar. The community had some kind of argument about succubi?

They changed the model for the succubus during one of the patches. I forget what exactly everyone hated about the new one, but a lot of them prefered the older model.

And MMORPG show how silly this can get in a lot of ways. Armor that LOOKS like big imposing breastplate on a guy turns into a bikini top on a woman. Full plated leggings on a guy turns into short shorts with a strap on shin guard on the women. And WoW was better at this then most. Ever try to find leggings for a female character in FFXI that WASNT a bikini bottom of some sort?

In any case, I like seeing attractive women in fantasy art. But I'd like to see more art that had them in PRACTICAL outfits. (Thank you for the examples Klaus) Oh, and scars can look down right sexy if presented right. And to Eric...I gotta know how many shouts about 'Anime' that elf picture got. (I LOVE that sorceress)

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Part of the problem is that artists are 100% perverts. Seriously. You wouldn't believe how hard we have to ramp them back sometimes.

The personal sketchbooks of nearly every big comic book artist could never be released onto the Internet as-is, since they would get sued into oblivion by the comic book publishers. And the more sweet and innocent their art is, the naughtier their private sketches seem to be.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

They changed the model for the succubus during one of the patches. I forget what exactly everyone hated about the new one, but a lot of them prefered the older model.

It's pretty much the same, just a new take on a big boobed half-naked bondage demon. The new one has a bit more bestial aspect to it, but not by much.

 

[Moonshade]

Actually, if you go to that page, the majority of the contest winning covers do not feature "clinch" poses. (That page taught me a new word!) There's also a link to a debate regarding the clinch cover, and its appropriateness. Seems the new wave of romance novels is moving away from it.

My quick estimate is that less than 20% of the covers feature a heavily muscled guy without a shirt. And this is on erotica, which logically should be more sexual than D&D artwork of women.

I should probably have said that many women dislike stereotypical romance novel covers - the Viking holding a swooning lady doesn't appeal to them at all. The site has good examples of art that was meant to be sexy but failed miserably; the Worst Cover pages contain some hilarious voter comments. My general impression is that pretty much every page includes voters' opinions on the kind of heroines they'd like to see and that could be of at least some use to the art discussion here. Hot but not tacky seems to describe those covers with handsome men that did do well in voting, so I'm not sure a man wearing the equivalent of the chainmail bikini would have much success in that contest.

Before first visiting the site, I didn't know there was a subsection of romance called Alternate Reality. More circumstantial evidence that while women may be a minority among D&D players, many of them enjoy fantasy-related things like the LOTR movies or, in this case, romances with fantasy themes/creatures?

 

[Cadfan]

Before first visiting the site, I didn't know there was a subsection of romance called Alternate Reality. More circumstantial evidence that while women may be a minority among D&D players, many of them enjoy fantasy-related things like the LOTR movies or, in this case, romances with fantasy themes/creatures?

If you want to know just how far that Alternate Reality stuff goes, look around for fan fiction websites. Just think where that trend goes once its freed from copyright and the unofficial "soft-core only" rule honored by professional publishers.

But you're right. Women are a minority among D&D players, but there's a lot of reason to think that they shouldn't be. They basically own the geek fan fiction community, and they're taking over the fantasy genre and colonizing it with fantasy/romance hybrid literature. Its a little disconcerting when you don't realize what you've just checked out of the library.

 

[Mad Mac]

Its a little disconcerting when you don't realize what you've just checked out of the library.

Heh. I've made that mistake before.

"Ehh...the main character is kind of slutty. The background story seems kind of interesting though so I guess I can roll with it."

"200 pages in, and our heroic protaganist has made it outdoors, and mostly clothed. Huzzah!"

"Uh, nevermind. She's outdoors anyway."

"The author is still dropping hints of some sort of cataclysmic event, so I'm sure the story will take off any minute now...apparently, it's just going to take a lot more sex to bring about the end of the world."

"Was that a minotaur? Ugh...I'm just going to put this put book back on the shelf. Sneaky like..."

Can't remember the name of the book, but apparently it was like the 4th or 5th book in the series that this woman had written. Big honkin book too. She must have been the Robert Jordan of the Harlequin Fantasy Adventure world...

 

[Cadfan]

The worst are the ones that are really well disguised. They're sneaky, and shelved in the fantasy section, and the sex doesn't start right away. "Eyes of Crow" by Jeri Smith-Ready is a decent fantasy novel. Its one of those ones where, as you're reading it, you're thinking up how cool it would be to use it as a source for a home-brew game. And then when you're least expecting it, SEX TIME!

At least the characters are monogamous. It could be worse. And I'll read the sequel coming out in October, even if I'll blush and skip a page or two.

 

[lukelightning]

In all honesty, I have never seen a "Damsel in Distress" plot. Ever.

Damsels in Distress almost always turn out to be succubi, doppelgangers, lycanthropes, dragons, or all of the above. The safest thing to do when encountering a damsel is to kill her.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

That's got NOTHING to do with it.

MEN like strong, powerful men.

I post this every time this conversation comes up, and everyone ignores it. Its like it explodes a brain cell and they instantly forget having read my post.

Look, do you think that He Man was shirtless to appeal to chicks? Do you think that professional wrestlers would wear more clothing if it weren't for the need to appeal to a female audience? Was Conan half naked because he had to provide fan service to his vast following of female readers?

No, no, and no. The burly half naked barbarian men are in there for the men to look at. The naked slave girl barbarian chicks are in there for the men to look at. Everything is in there for the men to look at.

If the half naked male art work were being done to appeal to female viewers, it would look very different. Probably it would be a hybrid of harlequin romance covers and yaoi anime, but we'll never know since it hasn't happened yet.

Yes, I think you might be correct that it is definitely more an appeal to the male fans.
And it's probably also true that this is not really what women prefer, though, within some limits: Most women prefer man that are bigger than they are.
But I am not sure that this isn't more important then other attributes (and some of these attributes are not related to beauty or character).

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Scout's honor. Thought that was some intentionally mocking misspelled/cobbled together between Freeza, Vegeta and Picollo (Well, Vallejo and Picollo sound similar phonically), three characters from said source, and you were making some sort of lame "Lol half-naked girly men=Anime" crack.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I did indeed recognize the belaboured pun you were alluding to.