D&D 4E Women in 4E

[Exen Trik]

I just think they need to present more strong females in art and stories, that don't cater to any particular style or description. That also means they shouldn't go overboard and try to play up a constant feminist angle or something... but I'd like to see a female knight rescue a prince from a dragon once in a while.

Also, when we get new iconics, I'm hoping for a butt-kicking female dwarf to be in there somewhere, perhaps as a ranger.

 

[fuindordm]

I'd like to see more faces with "character" on both genders. And I very much agree with Natalie--adventurers shouldn't need classic features and runway poses to be glamorous. Humor and competence are just as attractive, but perhaps they've been harder to convey.

I think that 3E did an excellent job, however. The female iconics had some nice variety, and they certainly weren't all top models. The prettiest were probably the paladin and druid, both fully armored. Lidda, Ember, and Mailee were all rather average, wouldn't you say?

 

[GSHamster]

I think we should leave the non-WotC stuff out of the conversation. WotC can't really do anything about other people using art of chain-mail bikinis.

In my opinion, WotC has been very good about depicting strong, non-objectified women in 3E. Thinking back to the PHB, we have Lidda, Alhandra, Vanyia, among others. All were dressed appropriately for their role.

So long as they continue the trend of 3E, I think concern over this is not really warranted. As far as I can see, WotC has done a decent job with their portrayal of women.

 

[Moonshade]

Half-clad male characters in fantasy art may be relatively easy to find but I think their purpose is to inspire "Wow, he's strong and cool, I want to be him!" reactions from men. In my experience I have never heard Schwarzenegger, Conan or He-Man called attractive by women. The closest was this one friend who thought The Rock (pro wrestler) had a nice smile and seemed to have a sense of humour. But exaggerated muscles and scowly faces? None of the pictures that Teflon Billy posted are attractive to me (the first one in particular is pure fug). The men are just muscled, not handsome, and have "Me big and stupid" looks except for the bearded fellow with a plain face. There's a difference between half-clad and sexy. Steroid monster barbarians may be the norm in classic 20th century pulp fantasy but they're not sexy to women. Rugged and manly while being attractive to women is Eric Bana in Troy or Hugh Jackman as Wolverine, but Conan muscles are off-putting.

I like Vadania too, and the new Paizo cleric. They're nice to look at and dressed in beautiful, evocative outfits appropriate for their classes. The kind of art I'd use to illustrate my characters. As for 4E previews, the dwarf women look just plain awesome.

 

[Arkhandus]

In my opinion, WotC has been very good about depicting strong, non-objectified women in 3E. Thinking back to the PHB, we have Lidda, Alhandra, Vanyia, among others. All were dressed appropriately for their role.

So long as they continue the trend of 3E, I think concern over this is not really warranted. As far as I can see, WotC has done a decent job with their portrayal of women.

Might I direct you to the thread in which the proposed 4E core rulebook covers were posted? The female warrior on the Player's Handbook cover would like to disagree with you.


I'd like to see more equality in the artistic presentations of women in D&D products, too. The 3.0 iconics were well done, except for Mialee's wierd outfit. It's not really practical, despite the numerous tiny pouches on some parts of it, nor is it whimsical as you might expect an elf's garment to be....it's just wierd. The 4E stuff, and some of Paizo's Pathfinder stuff, only remind me of the kind of art they often had on the covers of Dragon or Dungeon magazines, which were of the objectifying women sort. Ugh.

 

[Pedestrian]

I agree with the original post.

 

[Wormwood]

I like half-naked women in fantasy art. Voluptuous and sexy is iconic. The virgin-harlot thing is iconic. The mother-goddess thing is iconic. Sexuality is powerful. Done well, it can be mythic. (Done poorly, it can be porn.) I like muscled barbarians cleaving skulls in fantasy art, too. That's iconic and powerful, as well. These things are "traditional" and even "cliche" for a reason. Sex, Birth, and Death are three of the most powerful (and common) visual themes for a reason.

Not realistic? Sexist? Whatever.

Sadly, your post is too large for me to .sig----so I am considering having it tattooed somewhere prominent on my body.

/salute

 

[Malhost Zormaeril]

KM: I can understand that view, and I appreciate it 100%. But what I *don't* like seeing is the fact that half-orcs and dwarves are only men. I think I've seen ONE picture of a female half-orc or dwarf in any wotc product, and that annoys me.

I haven't been the biggest buyer of 3.5e material, so I can't comment on the presence or absence of them. I seem to remember a few back in 2e, though, and we have a couple for 4e already. This is good, IMHO, since as a rule Dwarf women have this combination of round faces and sharp eyes which are aesthetically quite pleasing...

And the difference is in the fact that it seems like the second a woman puts on chainmail, it turns into the famous chainmail bikini, or something leaving all the vital areas open. I don't like that.

I'd much rather see a good-looking woman who isn't posing for the cover of some magazine. Or, barring that, I'd rather at least see males adhering to the same standard.

Most girls in this and in Wizards' boards seem to take issue more with the ventilation in armour than the actual lack of plain or ugly women. Let's face it, nobody likes ugly people (barring my wife, that is ) so we can just split the artwork into no armour/fully armoured and put up plenty of shirtless barbarians and cleavaged rogues on one hand, and both men and women in full armour on the other.

 

[Klaus]

Sometimes I get tired of posting the same pics over and over again...

 

[Klaus]

Part of the problem is that artists are 100% perverts. Seriously. You wouldn't believe how hard we have to ramp them back sometimes.

But for those looking for newer representations of women in fantasy, I hope you've had a chance to check out Pathfinder Iconic Kyra.

Or perhaps you prefer elves.

For fans of the classic style, of course, there's always Seoni.

--Erik

Erik, I tried contacting your Art Director and got no reply.