Wording Clearification

[Ashodin]

Alright got this player in my group, 3rd level druid (just ranked it last night yay!), and were having a bit of a understanding problem with one of hte powers.

Predator's Flurry from PHB2

Here is the wording:

Prim Target: 1 creature
Prim Attack: Wis vs Ref
Hit: 1d6+wis, target is dazed till end of your next turn.
Effect: you shift 2 squares
Primal predator: the number of squares you shift equals your dex mod (+3)
Secondary target: one creature other than the primary target
Secondary Attack: wis vs ref
hit: 1d6+wis, target is dazed until end of your next attack.

Ok here's the confusion. The effect of the first hit indicates that you are permitted to move 2 squares and make a secondary attack. Is that secondary attack on the primary target?

We think that is the understanding of the wording because after that you then get Primal Predator which allow sthe druid to move 3 squares (dex mod is +3). then it gives you the specifics on the secondary target.

??? can anyone help clearifiy this wording for me so we understand it.

 

[tiornys]

Check out the secondary target line. You'll note that it explicitly states the secondary target is different from the primary target. Hopefully, that will answer your question. The power is meant to give you one attack against one target, or ideally one attack each against two targets.

t~

 

[Ashodin]

That's what I figured as well, but what causes the confusion I think more so than whose who of the targets, is the moving. Because the effect of the first hit, says move 2 squares and make secondary attack. Then the primal preditor says move 3 squares. So does that mean we move a total of 5 squares, or just 3, or just 2? lol

I am also having a debate with one of my players on Attack of Oppertunity, he's claiming it worked differently in 3.5 and argues the wording is about the same.

If a creature/player leaves an adjacent square from another creature/player, he gives an oppertunity attack to any/all creatures/players it was adjacent too.

To me this seems pretty straight forward explained but here's the conflict.

Conflict 1
If a creature/player steps from a diagnal position to directly infront of the player/creature, no oppertunity attack is awarded.

Conflict 2
If a creature/player steps backwards from a player/creature, no oppertunity attack is awarded.

 

[tiornys]

That's what I figured as well, but what causes the confusion I think more so than whose who of the targets, is the moving. Because the effect of the first hit, says move 2 squares and make secondary attack. Then the primal preditor says move 3 squares. So does that mean we move a total of 5 squares, or just 3, or just 2? lol

The Primal Predator line replaces the normal effect line. You can tell because it's worded to change the number of squares you shift, not add more shifting ("The number of squares you shift is equal to....")

I am also having a debate with one of my players on Attack of Oppertunity, he's claiming it worked differently in 3.5 and argues the wording is about the same.

Opportunity Attacks in 4E are similar to those in 3.5 but there are significant differences.

If a creature/player leaves an adjacent square from another creature/player, he gives an oppertunity attack to any/all creatures/players it was adjacent too.

To me this seems pretty straight forward explained but here's the conflict.

Conflict 1
If a creature/player steps from a diagnal position to directly infront of the player/creature, no oppertunity attack is awarded.

Entering an adjacent square doesn't provoke, but leaving an adjacent square does. Diagonal squares are adjacent, so if I'm understanding you correctly (B moves from current space to x), I believe this movement does provoke an OA (unless it's a shift, of course).

.....
..A..
.Bx..
.....

Conflict 2
If a creature/player steps backwards from a player/creature, no oppertunity attack is awarded.

Unless this is a shift, this will almost always provoke. The key is that they are leaving a square that is adjacent; it doesn't matter that their destination is not adjacent.

t~

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Our group, who had never played 4e before, had a lot of problems coming to grip with OAs too, until we started thinking of them in the same way that the PH does.

The OA is provoked when they *leave* a *threatened* square. A player normally will "threaten" all 8/9 squares that he and his reach cover:

O O O
O X O
O O O

So X here is threatening all the squares marked with the O's. So a foe can step into an O and it does NOT provoke an OA because that foe is not *leaving* (unless a power specifically grants the OA). If the foe then attempts to leave any O, without shifting, or teleporting, then X gets the OA. Note that if X has threatening reach (some monsters do), then the O's would be 2 squares around X, and a foe would provoke an OA just by moving from one O into an adjacent O, because the foe was leaving a threatened square.

HTHs.

 

[Ashodin]

Thank you, that clearifies everything very well.

 

[Ashodin]

Ok I've got another random one, (sorry for being so noobish).

Skills like Cull of the Heard. Its a ranged skill of 10, burst 1. (oddly enough i've understood how burst and blast work from reading the forums. over and over and over lol it took a bit), but it hits multipul targets. Do I roll just 1 attack check on it, or do you roll one for every target in range?

 

[Mr. Teapot]

Skills like Cull of the Heard. Its a ranged skill of 10, burst 1. (oddly enough i've understood how burst and blast work from reading the forums. over and over and over lol it took a bit), but it hits multipul targets. Do I roll just 1 attack check on it, or do you roll one for every target in range?

Cull the Herd is just a Ranged 5 power. It only targets one creature (because the target line says so). Are you thinking of something different?

For other powers that are actually area bursts (like Twisting Vines), you target whatever it says. Twisting Vines targets every creature in the burst, whereas some others only target enemies in the burst or whatever (the post-errata Call of the Beast only target enemies). When you do, you roll a separate attack roll for each target but only one damage roll (see PHB pgs 270-271).

 

[UltimaGabe]

Ok I've got another random one, (sorry for being so noobish).

Skills like Cull of the Heard. Its a ranged skill of 10, burst 1. (oddly enough i've understood how burst and blast work from reading the forums. over and over and over lol it took a bit), but it hits multipul targets. Do I roll just 1 attack check on it, or do you roll one for every target in range?

When attacking multiple people with any area attack, you always make multiple attack rolls (make one roll for each target) and a single damage roll.

 

[Ashodin]

Cull the Herd is just a Ranged 5 power. It only targets one creature (because the target line says so). Are you thinking of something different?

For other powers that are actually area bursts (like Twisting Vines), you target whatever it says. Twisting Vines targets every creature in the burst, whereas some others only target enemies in the burst or whatever (the post-errata Call of the Beast only target enemies). When you do, you roll a separate attack roll for each target but only one damage roll (see PHB pgs 270-271).

I'm sorry I meant Cull of the Beast, not herd, my mistake Thank you for the clearification on this though..