WotC_Rodney...Chris Perkins...a black dragon...a playtest

[The Little Raven]

I don't know how well the SC 2.0 chase rules work in play, but they LOOK fantastic...

Could you post sometime after you try them out and see how they work? I've been interested in finding some good chase rules.

 

[Derren]

10 rounds is long, from what I've seen of 3e!

Yes, but we are talking about 4E which is supposed to have longer combats (in rounds) than 3E anyway. 10 rounds is long for 3E combat. But I am surprised that 10 rounds is also long for 4E combat.

Look at the stats of the Pit Fiend which isn't even a solo monster. With the low weapon damage 4E seems to have do you really expect that an encounter with a Pit Fiend, one or two equal level defender/striker demons and the summoned devils of the Pit Fiend would only last ~6 rounds?

 

[Intrope]

Yes, but we are talking about 4E which is supposed to have longer combats (in rounds) than 3E anyway. 10 rounds is long for 3E combat. But I am surprised that 10 rounds is also long for 4E combat.

Look at the stats of the Pit Fiend which isn't even a solo monster. With the low weapon damage 4E seems to have do you really expect that an encounter with a Pit Fiend, one or two equal level defender/striker demons and the summoned devils of the Pit Fiend would only last ~6 rounds?

I've had a lot of 3e combats shorter than 6 rounds, too. I'm not too surprised that 10 or more rounds would be long; even if the players and DM were really cranking out turns, that's probably 30+ minutes of real time. But if it's reasonably likely that a major 4e combat would go for 10 or more rounds, then that's a substantial increase in combat length compared to any 3e campaign I've ever witnessed!

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Yes, but we are talking about 4E which is supposed to have longer combats (in rounds) than 3E anyway. 10 rounds is long for 3E combat. But I am surprised that 10 rounds is also long for 4E combat.

Not too surprised. My average 3.5 combat lasts about 3 rounds. I expect that 4e will up the number to about 5 rounds. 10 rounds is just a lot.

Look at the stats of the Pit Fiend which isn't even a solo monster. With the low weapon damage 4E seems to have do you really expect that an encounter with a Pit Fiend, one or two equal level defender/striker demons and the summoned devils of the Pit Fiend would only last ~6 rounds?

Low damage for the ENEMIES. Keep in mind the default assumptions in 4e:
5 PCs
5 Monsters

If each PC does 30 damage in a round(about what the Pit Fiend does), then they do 150 total per round. It's about 3 rounds to take out a Pit Fiend with just this guess if all the PCs attack it. If the demons it summons are minons they will likely die in about 1-2 hits. Likely multiple of them will die in one area of effect attack. Maybe 1 more round to take them out.

Then, assuming one more Pit Fiend as the other enemy in the battle, about 4 more rounds to kill it and all its summoned minions. So, 8 rounds total.

Of course, increase the damage of the PCs and the number of rounds go down. If the PCs powers have the ability to stack together somehow, increasing damage from round to round or doing extra damage against bloodied creatures, this reduces it even further.

 

[Incenjucar]

You also have to factor in the sheer number of synergetic powers 4E seems to have.

Especially if there are multiple leader-type classes going in.

 

[catsclaw227]

If each PC does 30 damage in a round(about what the Pit Fiend does), then they do 150 total per round. It's about 3 rounds to take out a Pit Fiend with just this guess if all the PCs attack it. If the demons it summons are minons they will likely die in about 1-2 hits. Likely multiple of them will die in one area of effect attack. Maybe 1 more round to take them out.

I don't know...

If a 21st level summoned minion (legion devil legionnaire) only has enough hit points to survive a single AoE spell, I would be VERY suprised. I am guessing that they would have about 168hp each minimum (8hp per level - including bonuses), likely a lot more. That would be a seriously powerful AoE spell to take out 4 of the 8 summoned by the Pit Fiend.

 

[Incenjucar]

AOE spells, I think, will be mostly about working them down to bloodied status so that the more direct damage PCs can activate the full breadth of their powers for the smack down.

 

[Roland55]

There is no CR in 4th ed...

The "power curve" is supposed to be flatter, ie lower level charecters tougher, so you may have more freedom to throw assorted dragons at your players.

One of the things I am most looking forward to.

I hate TPK ... well, at least undeserved TPK. And I'd rather not have to expend every ounce of skill I possess to keep a challenging encounter from becoming a fatal one.