D&D 5E Would you consider 5th edition?

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
The way in which 1Ed & 2Ed were objectively simpler than later editions is this: PC design was much more restrictive.

Sure, you had to consider what spells you had...if you had any...but there were no real decisions to be made about Feats or skills. Generally speaking, if you didn't "multiclass" at first level, you never did.
 

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Kzach

Banned
Banned
If anyone in WotC is reading this, my suggestion for 5E would be a fully errata-ed 4E, just like that

PHB1 classes could do with some of the mechanical improvements of those in PHB2 (havent read PHB3 yet)

MM1 monsters could also do with some of the improvements in MM2, and the leaked updated monster layout for MM3 looks good too

edit: and of course, DMG1 page 42 and the whole Skill Challenge chapter needs to be completely rewritten with what we have all learned since!
Strangely enough, I agree with all of this and even think that a 4.5ed wouldn't be such a bad thing if it included all of the above changes.
 

bagger245

Explorer
The way in which 1Ed & 2Ed were objectively simpler than later editions is this: PC design was much more restrictive.

Sure, you had to consider what spells you had...if you had any...but there were no real decisions to be made about Feats or skills. Generally speaking, if you didn't "multiclass" at first level, you never did.

Yes. There wasn't much things to consider. You get dead levels almost all the time. The only thing left to do was to work on character concepts and roleplay the hell out of it. The extra rules were mostly optional anyway. Strip all of it to basics and you get BD&D.
 
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Shazman

Banned
Banned
It really depends on what the rules are like.

4E still has some glaring issues from my perspective:

1) No in combat scrolls. There should be a way to quickly cast a ritual like Knock in combat. Some of my fondest memories in earlier editions was when the party was in dire straits and a player pulled out an old dusty scroll that had been on his character sheet for 9 months and he saves the day with it.

2) One round durations. WotC said "Oh, a few PCs casting a few spells over the entire party for the encounter encounter is bad, instead we will have EVERY PC effectively cast spells over the entire party and/or the enemies for some fraction of a round". Effect durations end at the start of your next turn, the end of your next turn, the start of the foe's next turn, the end of the foe's next turn, after a save is made, or until the end of the encounter.

The problem here is the vast number of conditions on PCs and NPCs at any given time. We use little plastic rings that we put on the miniatures and we often have 20 or more of these rings out on the miniatures at any given time.

That's a LOT of bookkeeping. Every single creature's turn tends to result in little plastic rings either being put on some miniatures, or off of some miniatures. The game is all about condition tracking now.

We waste a lot of time in game figuring out exactly all of the modifiers to a given situation and tracking the changes of them.

3) Very few higher level At Will powers. For the most part, the dinky little At Wills learned at low level stick with the PC his entire life. Yawn. Paragon Level and Epic Level should add in a new cool At Will while maintaining the original Heroic At Wills. Learning new Encounter and Daily powers is fine, but only learning those is meh. The focus should be more on multiple At Wills and less on multiple Encounter and Dailies.

4) Limited balance of power sources. I really dislike the concept that "if the Wizard can do an area attack, the Fighter must be able to do an area attack". And not just with his sword. He can do things like Come and Get It where he somehow mystically forces his foes to move, even if they don't want to, from 15 feet away. I think the distinction between the power sources should be better defined. Sorry, but your Fighter just isn't going to heal himself and your Rogue isn't going to Teleport due to class powers.

Better expressed, I dislike magical effects in the Martial powers source. Rationals aside, having a dying PC suddenly jump up and be mostly whole and hearty because a Warlord ally across the room yelled "Get Up!" feels too much like magic to me.

I do not like the current entitlement system that all power sources are entitled to all types of effects. I think each power source should be special in it's own unique way. Divine should be the healers and supporters. Arcane should be the teleporters and multiple target damage dealers. Martial should be the single target damage dealers and focused on what the PC can personally do (climb, jump, attack, etc.), not what the PC can mystically do beyond himself (teleport, fly, fireball). The line is pretty darn blurry in 4E. As an example in 3E, when the Simbul healing spells first came out, it was lame. Wizards could now heal. Meh.

Granted, this sounds like a rant. It isn't. I just prefer segregation of abilities via power source.

5) More focus on non-attack powers. The vast majority of powers in the game system do damage. It would be nice if each player had more than just a few utility powers at his disposal. The ability to cast rituals with scrolls would help with this.

I agree with these points, but even more than that, combat needs to be sped up significantly. Either by reducing monster hit points or increasing PC damage. However they do it, it needs to be done and needs to implemented across the whole system, not as a house rule or sidebar, but as part of the game. The one and a half to two and a half hour combats that are standard fair in LFR (and I suspect in many 4E home games) need to quickly be a thing of the past.
 

Kzach

Banned
Banned
The one and a half to two and a half hour combats that are standard fair in LFR (and I suspect in many 4E home games) need to quickly be a thing of the past.

Although I agree that monster hit points should be revisited, I don't agree that it's 'standard' for slow combats. As someone who has DM'd and played in dozens of LFR groups and home games and online, combat is as fast as the players and DM's and has less to do with the rules than it does with the groups in question.
 

Talysian

Explorer
Sad to say I would be so Down for a 4.5e.. Though mainly because I really don't buy the books anymore, as all the crunch is in the DDI stuff, and I usually either run modules, or refluff everything for my home games.
 

Shazman

Banned
Banned
Although I agree that monster hit points should be revisited, I don't agree that it's 'standard' for slow combats. As someone who has DM'd and played in dozens of LFR groups and home games and online, combat is as fast as the players and DM's and has less to do with the rules than it does with the groups in question.

I am sure some groups will play faster than others, but I still believe that it has much more to do with the mechanics of the game itself. For example, just yesterday, I was in an LFR game. We played low tier, had the right mix of characters for the mod (lots of divine vs. lots of undead), played with good tactics, were decisive, and the mod still took about 5 1/2 hours (all LFR mods except double mods are supposed to be completed in 4 hours) to complete, mainly due to the length of the combat encounters. The encounters were relatively short for LFR, due to the optimal circumstances, but still too long. In contrast, every combat encounter I have played in 3.5 or Pathfinder in recent months, moves at lightning speed compared to 4E. From my personal experience, I can come to no other conclusion than lengthy combat in 4E is a result of the system itself. Grindiness seems to be built into 4E's mechanics.
 

fba827

Adventurer
So when 5e comes around... will I give it a chance? Or will I simply be happy with 4e and not bother?

Judging a game by its title would be like judging a book by its cover. It's a game, no reason not to get information about what it actually is before deciding whether or not to try it.

As said a few times in this thread, all games are awesome in their own way. No reason to be stubborn and not at least look at preview information and decide whether or not i'm interested in looking at initial release stuff to gauge personal preference and interest.

When 5e comes out, I'll at least get information about it and decide whether or not I want to try it out, just as I have done for all game systems and editions.
 

jasin

Explorer
So when 5e comes around... will I give it a chance? Or will I simply be happy with 4e and not bother?

These are the questions I ask myself, and so now ask you as well.
I've come to dislike 4E, but I'm not completely happy with 3E anymore (or any of the available alternatives that I've tried), so sure, I'll try.
 

Kzach

Banned
Banned
Grindiness seems to be built into 4E's mechanics.

Again, I really think this has more to do with the groups you're playing in than the rules themselves. I've played LFR mods in two hours and the very same mod, different group, took almost six.

Some groups are slower than others. But for the most part, I've experienced combats taking on average an hour in most groups I've played in and DM'd for, and I've played and DM'd for quite a lot of groups.

Maybe a lot of your groups have been of a lower average level and with sub-par gear or feat/power choices. That happens a lot in LFR. And in home games, I find a lot of DM's make the mistake of thinking that combat is too easy for PC's, so they always throw big encounters at players.

Remember that an average encounter of the PC's level and XP is going to be a cake-walk for them. If you're finding every fight to be an all-out slugfest, then maybe you should speak to your DM and try to make him realise that most fights should actually be pretty easy for the PC's.
 

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