D&D General Your Thoughts on LoS, Dynamic Lighting on VTTs

[Retreater]

Since moving exclusively to VTTs for gaming in 2020 and the foreseeable future, I've been trying to provide a better experience online. For the past several months I've been using Line of Sight/Fog of War/Dynamic Lighting to reveal areas of the map to individual players only as their characters can see the areas.
This has had the effect of making it so players can't see what's going on in the adventure unless they're actually in the room. It's more realistic, but I feel like it might be causing the players to be disengaged in what's going on when their player isn't in a certain area when the rest of the party is.
I also feel like it is slowing down the game as each player inches forward to uncover a bit at a time.
Do you like dynamic lighting as a player on a VTT? As a GM do you use it?

 

[Charlaquin]

Yep. Dynamic lighting on VTTs is an extremely cool concept that quickly becomes a huge time sink to prep, only to result in exactly the problems you describe - slowdown as players move around gradually reveal the map, and disengaging when they can’t see what’s going on. It can also result in an increasing reliance on the visual aid of the dynamically lit map over narrative description. All in my opinion of course. There are folks who swear by it, but it just isn’t for me.

 

[jmartkdr2]

As a player, I like it when it's being used, but I find it to be a small improvement at best. I don't like how it hides the areas you've already been to - I would prefer if it worked like a RTS game where explored areas stay mapped but you can't see sprites/tokens.

As a dm, setting up dynamic lighting on roll20 is way too much work to be worth it. (But I get the impression that this isn't true of Foundry, and I don't know about any other VTTs)

Edit to add: if someone was selling fully-set-up maps, I would consider paying money for that. It's a giant time savings.

 

[iserith]

Yes, I like dynamic lighting as a player and use it as a DM. I find it works best in enclosed environments like a dungeon rather than in the wilds (e.g. trees or ruined walls in a forest or the like). As far as some players being able to see more than others given their positioning, if the game is sufficiently fast-paced, this isn't really much of an issue in my experience. A character looks into the room or whatever, nothing obviously dangerous stands out, the whole party enters. If everyone is sitting statically for a long period of time, maybe consider why that is and correct for it. I'm not really sure what you mean by players inching forward to "uncover a bit at a time." The most common complaint I hear with regard to VTT play is that the players are moving their characters all over the place in a way that is disruptive to the DM describing the environment. Perhaps you could elaborate.

 

[iserith]

As a player, I like it when it's being used, but I find it to be a small improvement at best. I don't like how it hides the areas you've already been to - I would prefer if it worked like a RTS game where explored areas stay mapped but you can't see sprites/tokens.

As a dm, setting up dynamic lighting on roll20 is way too much work to be worth it. (But I get the impression that this isn't true of Foundry, and I don't know about any other VTTs)

Edit to add: if someone was selling fully-set-up maps, I would consider paying money for that. It's a giant time savings.

You can use advanced fog of war on Roll20 to get what you prefer. And you can buy map packs that already have the dynamic lighting set up.

 

[Retreater]

As a dm, setting up dynamic lighting on roll20 is way too much work to be worth it. (But I get the impression that this isn't true of Foundry, and I don't know about any other VTTs)

Edit to add: if someone was selling fully-set-up maps, I would consider paying money for that. It's a giant time savings.

I don't mind taking the extra time to do it. In fact, I find it kind of relaxing and do it for fun just to see what maps would look like in Roll20.
I believe there are some map packs on there that might already have dynamic lighting put in. Could be wrong though.

 

[Retreater]

Yes, I like dynamic lighting as a player and use it as a DM. I find it works best in enclosed environments like a dungeon rather than in the wilds (e.g. trees or ruined walls in a forest or the like). As far as some players being able to see more than others given their positioning, if the game is sufficiently fast-paced, this isn't really much of an issue in my experience. A character looks into the room or whatever, nothing obviously dangerous stands out, the whole party enters. If everyone is sitting statically for a long period of time, maybe consider why that is and correct for it. I'm not really sure what you mean by players inching forward to "uncover a bit at a time." The most common complaint I hear with regard to VTT play is that the players are moving their characters all over the place in a way that is disruptive to the DM describing the environment. Perhaps you could elaborate.

The feeling is that they are moving more like their characters might in a real situation than when a battlemat is shown on a table in person. If they can't see what's going on, or that they lose sight of other characters, they will go back, regroup, discuss what's ahead, etc. Which is fine, it just goes more slowly than in a face-to-face game at times.

 

[iserith]

The feeling is that they are moving more like their characters might in a real situation than when a battlemat is shown on a table in person. If they can't see what's going on, or that they lose sight of other characters, they will go back, regroup, discuss what's ahead, etc. Which is fine, it just goes more slowly than in a face-to-face game at times.

That's odd. Online play in my experience is in every way faster than face-to-face games, provided the group has some experience with the VTT (and nobody has any computer or internet issues).

 

[Charlaquin]

Yes, I like dynamic lighting as a player and use it as a DM. I find it works best in enclosed environments like a dungeon rather than in the wilds (e.g. trees or ruined walls in a forest or the like). As far as some players being able to see more than others given their positioning, if the game is sufficiently fast-paced, this isn't really much of an issue in my experience. A character looks into the room or whatever, nothing obviously dangerous stands out, the whole party enters.

How do you consistently insure the bolded section happens?

If everyone is sitting statically for a long period of time, maybe consider why that is and correct for it. I'm not really sure what you mean by players inching forward to "uncover a bit at a time." The most common complaint I hear with regard to VTT play is that the players are moving their characters all over the place in a way that is disruptive to the DM describing the environment. Perhaps you could elaborate.

In my experience the “slowdown” comes from players kind of stutter-stepping with their tokens, moving ahead a few squares at a time to see what’s further down the hall, or as you say, having their tokens dance around randomly to try and get a clear view of something. For example, a character might open a door and be unable to see the entire room, so they move side to side to shine their sight arc around the room and see what’s in it instead of just stepping inside like you say they do in your games.

It’s not a huge slowdown, but it shifts focus towards trying to get a clear view of the map instead of paying attention to the DM’s narration. I’ve experienced this from both sides of the screen, both having to repeat myself as a DM because the players were more concerned with trying to see the map than listing, and as a player myself, unconsciously tuning out the DM’s description as I look at what’s going on on the map. Especially if the descriptions frequently don’t contain information I couldn’t have gleaned from the visual aid.

 

[cmad1977]

You can use advanced fog of war on Roll20 to get what you prefer. And you can buy map packs that already have the dynamic lighting set up.

You can also create a token with vision and make hay emits light that is controlled by all members of the party. This allows the group to drop a little token behind them that provides light(i set mine to dim light) and grants vision to everyone in places that the heroes have been.

The advanced fog of war does this but I have had issues with its implementation(could just be me) and found this trick works well.

Another important thing IMO is to put ALL the tokens on the map on the GM layer so the game isn’t calculating the vision of every NPC on the map at once.

I also don’t bother with making things like pillars or boulders block sight. If a monster is hidden behind the pillar, it’s on the GM layer. This lets the players see the room in all its magnificence. Most people will understand that while THEY can see all the pillars in the room, the heroes cannot.