D&D 5E Eldritch Knight: Better Arcane Archer than the subclass?

Corpsetaker · Dec 15, 2016

After looking over the Eldritch Knight, it looks like that subclass can make a better Arcane Archer than the actual subclass. Now unfortunately, the Eldritch Knight doesn't have an "Imbue Arrow" ability, but neither does the Arcane Archer subclass. What the Eldritch Knight does allow is the mixing of archery and spells. I can use my bow and still be able to throw a Fireball when needed, or actually buff myself.

I just think Wizards dropped the ball with the Arcane Archer.

FormerlyHemlock · Dec 15, 2016

Eldritch Knight doesn't need an "Imbue Arrow" ability. It just casts Magic Weapon on its own bow with a bonus action and commences raining magic arrows with impunity on the enemy--something which the Arcane Archer cannot do.

Eldritch Knight can also kite using Expeditious Retreat, also a bonus action.

I agree that Arcane Archer as written is a worse arcane archer than the EK. In fact I don't understand why the Arcane Archer exists at all.

Valetudo · Dec 15, 2016

Arcane archer should have been left as a feat or made into a ranger subclass.

Valetudo · Dec 15, 2016

Corpsetaker said:
After looking over the Eldritch Knight, it looks like that subclass can make a better Arcane Archer than the actual subclass. Now unfortunately, the Eldritch Knight doesn't have an "Imbue Arrow" ability, but neither does the Arcane Archer subclass. What the Eldritch Knight does allow is the mixing of archery and spells. I can use my bow and still be able to throw a Fireball when needed, or actually buff myself.

I just think Wizards dropped the ball with the Arcane Archer.

I have not been impressed at all with these UA subclasses. A couple of them look alright, but most of them look forced.

DEFCON 1 · Dec 15, 2016

I almost wonder if the "Arcane Archer" concept wouldn't be better executed via spells that you cast and then make a ranged weapon attack as part of it... just like the four cantrips they made in SCAG to facilitate the bladesingers? The downside of course being that EKs don't get cantrips, so you'd either need a new Fighter subclass that is like the EK but which does give cantrips, or you need to make these "cast spell and make ranged weapon attack as part of same action" spells 1st level or higher (so that you *could* use the EK.)

Not sure what is better... but I dunno if the UA Arcane Archer's non-spell Arcane Shot "spells" are the best way to go. It just seems like a whole new mechanical subsystem invented for a single subclass.

hawkeyefan · Dec 15, 2016

So is the question then do we need the additional option?

If the Eldritch Knight subclass can be used to create either an arcane melee warrior or an arcane archer, then do we need another subclass? Does an arcane archer need to be labeled as such, or is it more important to simply create a character who fits the idea of the arcane archer?

The original subclasses are (mostly) sufficiently broad in theme to be applied a number of ways. The UA proposals (mostly) seem to have a more narrow theme. I don't know if many of them are really necessary.

Corpsetaker · Dec 15, 2016

DEFCON 1 said:
I almost wonder if the "Arcane Archer" concept wouldn't be better executed via spells that you cast and then make a ranged weapon attack as part of it... just like the four cantrips they made in SCAG to facilitate the bladesingers? The downside of course being that EKs don't get cantrips, so you'd either need a new Fighter subclass that is like the EK but which does give cantrips, or you need to make these "cast spell and make ranged weapon attack as part of same action" spells 1st level or higher (so that you *could* use the EK.)

Not sure what is better... but I dunno if the UA Arcane Archer's non-spell Arcane Shot "spells" are the best way to go. It just seems like a whole new mechanical subsystem invented for a single subclass.

EK's do get Cantrips.

hejtmane · Dec 15, 2016

Another Option would have been leveraging the superiority dice method. Like Battle master start with 1d8 and scale as levels; resore on short or long rest that way you get more than the two magical arrow attacks and you can vary damage and not have it just be force damage.

Like Battle master Maneuvers you get to start with three and use your dice on but instead of maneuvers you can summon different damage type arrows. Say that you want an elemental arcane archer theme ok so you take ice arrow, fire arrow and you can open it up to more choices by level you can even make one do like sweep attack but from range. You could even add in like a bludgeoning arrow, armor piercing arrow etc etc. Man what they could do by going that route would be sweet it should all be about the different arrows. The possibilities are endless and much like manuvers or spells decisions have to be made.

That still leaves EK to fill a slightly different archer roll if people so desire

cbwjm · Dec 15, 2016

DEFCON 1 said:
I almost wonder if the "Arcane Archer" concept wouldn't be better executed via spells that you cast and then make a ranged weapon attack as part of it... just like the four cantrips they made in SCAG to facilitate the bladesingers? The downside of course being that EKs don't get cantrips, so you'd either need a new Fighter subclass that is like the EK but which does give cantrips, or you need to make these "cast spell and make ranged weapon attack as part of same action" spells 1st level or higher (so that you *could* use the EK.)

Not sure what is better... but I dunno if the UA Arcane Archer's non-spell Arcane Shot "spells" are the best way to go. It just seems like a whole new mechanical subsystem invented for a single subclass.

EKs do get cantrips so new ranged weapon cantrips would work for them. It is the half casters that don't get any cantrips.

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Bacon Bits · Dec 15, 2016

Hemlock said:
Eldritch Knight doesn't need an "Imbue Arrow" ability. It just casts Magic Weapon on its own bow with a bonus action and commences raining magic arrows with impunity on the enemy--something which the Arcane Archer cannot do.

That's not a very wise course, though. Magic weapon is neither Evocation nor Abjuration, meaning it would be a spell that's one of the three (20th level doesn't count... 14th barely does) valuable "any school" spells. Yes, you're almost certainly going to burn all three spells on the Transmutation school, just like the Arcane Trickster, but magic weapon strikes me as a very weak choice. Additionally, you're not getting 2nd level spells until level 7. Sure, sure, "Magic items aren't required," but I'd still argue that your campaign is a little abnormal if you're a level 7+ Fighter in an archery role and haven't got at least a shortbow +1.

D&D 5E Eldritch Knight: Better Arcane Archer than the subclass?

Corpsetaker

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