D&D 5E Making crappy subclasses great again

Satyrn · Dec 21, 2017

CubicsRube said:
I almost feel like the champion should have a paladin like aur Bility, such as granting saves to all allies withon 30 feet against fear for example. Can be at 7th when they get remarkable athlete

As a fighter fan, I wouldn't like that. The +1 hp suggested earlier feels more right to me.

I'd also just make Remarkable Athlete a +2 bonus to all checks it applies to, so my champion can take proficiency in Athletics at first level without having the later class feature feel watered down.

ad_hoc · Dec 21, 2017

CM said:
Isn't this thread about boosting weak subclasses, and not trying new subclasses?

Myself, I'm a little unhappy with the spell school restrictions on the eldritch knight and arcane trickster, but I haven't officially houseruled either yet (no demand from players).

Those are the boosted subclasses. They've already been created. This is reinventing the wheel.

Thurmas · Dec 21, 2017

Bard subclasses: Give all subclasses magical secrets at level 6 like the lore bard. Give the lore bard an extra ability to make up for it at 6, maybe like an Arcane recovery feature.

cbwjm · Dec 21, 2017

jaelis said:
4 elements monk: reduce ki cost for all disciplines by one

A better option I think it is let them choose mystic disciplines from the wujen list and use ki to activate the powers. Each discipline gives them multiple options to choose from instead of just a single spell or ability at each subclass level.

cbwjm · Dec 21, 2017

CM said:
Isn't this thread about boosting weak subclasses, and not trying new subclasses?

Myself, I'm a little unhappy with the spell school restrictions on the eldritch knight and arcane trickster, but I haven't officially houseruled either yet (no demand from players).

You can actually get by quite well with the free selection that each subclass gets at certain levels but otherwise I kind of agree and am contemplating the following if I ever get back into being DM.

Option A: Choose any two schools of magic as your main schools. This allows you to represent an arcane trickster who studied under a transmuter or an eldritch knight who studied under a necromancer. I like this as an option because it lets players customise their caster a bit.

Option B: You studied under a wizard. Gain a spellbook with 6 first level wizard spells. You can prepare a number of spells equal to your level/3 + your Intelligence modifier (minimum 1 spell). Gain more spells as you level up at a rate to be determined later. I like option B because they are Intelligence casters who must have had some sort of rudimentary training under a wizard so I like them to be able to prepare their spells. If I wanted them use spells known instead of prepared then I'd make them Charisma based (Option C?). They might not be able to prepare as many spells but have the benefit of being able to add any wizard spell to their spell book that they have the slots for.

Gadget · Dec 21, 2017

CM said:
Isn't this thread about boosting weak subclasses, and not trying new subclasses?

Myself, I'm a little unhappy with the spell school restrictions on the eldritch knight and arcane trickster, but I haven't officially houseruled either yet (no demand from players).

I like the idea of the spell school restrictions, but the implementation is lacking. For EK, evocation is not really a good match. As a 1/3 caster, your spells come on line a day late and a dollar short to really make a difference at your level; and they compete with your main damage schtick: stabbing or bashing with the sharp metal thingy. You are a fighter after all. I have found Transmutation school a much better fit for the EK. This way you're working with and enhancing your fighting abilities rather than competing with them. As for the the AT, I've also considered replacing Enchantment with Transmutation, but so far have not found as big a discrepancy in spell selection and sub-class design.

That said, I think the EK & AT do show that the 1/3 caster model is not really ideal for anyone looking for a gish or peudo-gish style character. Paladin, Warlock (depending on build), bard, cleric etc. fill the niche better IMHO.

Gladius Legis · Dec 22, 2017

CM said:
Isn't this thread about boosting weak subclasses, and not trying new subclasses?

Yeah. Especially since Swords is, conceptually, not even in the same ball park as Valor. At all.

Sun Soul, mechanically, is a non-sucky take on how a lot of 4 Elements' stuff should've worked, but also again, not the same conceptually.

Eltab · Dec 22, 2017

CM said:
Myself, I'm a little unhappy with the spell school restrictions on the eldritch knight and arcane trickster, but I haven't officially houseruled either yet (no demand from players).

I'd like to playtest an AT (several, really) who are tied to the different schools of magic. A Divination Trickster should be able to see the Police coming and be finished (or prepare a diversion) ahead of time. An Enchantment trickster might wish for more CHR as he fast-talks his way out of trouble. An Abjurer Trickster specializes in the magic-equivalent of picking locks, not the physical ones. A Blaster Trickster ... well, you can always go out with a BANG and take the Palace Guard with you.

CubicsRube · Dec 23, 2017

Satyrn said:
As a fighter fan, I wouldn't like that. The +1 hp suggested earlier feels more right to me.

I'd also just make Remarkable Athlete a +2 bonus to all checks it applies to, so my champion can take proficiency in Athletics at first level without having the later class feature feel watered down.

I like this. Its effectively like a fighting style but for physical ability checks. It definately helps set the theme of the champion as the most capable of physical specimen.