Here Are The Most Popular D&D Feats (War Caster Leads The Pack!)

Parmandur · Feb 22, 2019

pukunui said:
Except that Crawford has already established that clerics and paladins don’t need War Caster if they’ve got their holy symbol on their shield. I suppose some people might not know that, but I’m leaning more towards clerics and paladins taking the feat for its other benefits.

I would wager most people playing don't know who Jeremy Crawford is, let alone about his rulings.

Satyrn · Feb 22, 2019

pukunui said:
Here’s the relevant bit from the Sage Advice Compendium (OverlordOcelot is correct; I’d forgotten the second part below):

Another example: a cleric’s holy symbol is emblazoned
on her shield. She likes to wade into melee combat with a mace in one hand and a shield in the other. She uses the holy symbol as her spellcasting focus, so she needs to have the shield in hand when she casts a cleric spell that has a material component. If the spell, such as aid, also has a somatic component, she can perform that component with the shield hand and keep holding the mace in the other.

If the same cleric casts cure wounds, she needs to put the mace or the shield away, because that spell doesn’t have a material component but does have a somatic component. She’s going to need a free hand to make the spell’s gestures. If she had the War Caster feat, she could ignore this restriction.

Click to expand...

So never mind, I was misremembering.

That looks wrongly weird to me. I don't see how he concludes that the shield hand counts as free for the somatic component in one case but not the other?

Dessert Nomad · Feb 22, 2019

Azzy said:
Use a tether to keep your weapon from completely falling... then it's just dangling from your arm when you "drop" it.

This doesn't appear to stop someone from snagging the weapon and using it themselves, unless the DM gives you some kind of hilariously favorable 'tether' house rule that lets you have swords hanging off of your body 'dropped' but not easily removed from the tether by someone else, not help enemies grapple/restrain you, and not hurting you or hindering your movements when you try to move while an effective weapon is dangling loose next to your body. Also, this is not AL or RAW legal as it's not a piece of equipment listed in the PHB, it's a custom piece of equipment that you're trying to get really, really favorable rules for using. I'm thinking that if it's a weak tether then it's an easy STR check to pull a weapon free from it, and if it's a strong tether then grabbing the sword puts you into a grapple without you getting to contest, and forces you spend your next action breaking the grapple if you want to get the sword back. And this isn't a harsh ruling, this is just trying to be sensible about how having a sword dangling from a chain works.

pukunui · Feb 22, 2019

Satyrn said:
That looks wrongly weird to me. I don't see how he concludes that the shield hand counts as free for the somatic component in one case but not the other?

It just makes it so a holy symbol on a shield works the same way as every other spellcasting focus: a focus can be used in place of a material component, and if a spell has both somatic and material components, you can perform the somatic component while holding the focus.

It makes it so a holy symbol on a shield is no different to a holy symbol on an amulet. If you’re holding a shield with a holy symbol on it, then you’re considered to be holding the holy symbol.

Satyrn · Feb 22, 2019

pukunui said:
It just makes it so a holy symbol on a shield works the same way as every other spellcasting focus.

If you’re holding a sword in one hand and a crystal ball in the other, and you want to cast shield, you’d have to drop one of the things you’re holding first, since that spell has a somatic component but not a material one.

Okay. Then it's the rule itself that's weird.

Sweet. Now I can't be accused of being a WotC shill who thinks they can do no wrong.

Satyrn · Feb 22, 2019

pukunui said:
It just makes it so a holy symbol on a shield works the same way as every other spellcasting focus: a focus can be used in place of a material component, and if a spell has both somatic and material components, you can perform the somatic component while holding the focus.

It makes it so a holy symbol on a shield is no different to a holy symbol on an amulet. If you’re holding a shield with a holy symbol on it, then you’re considered to be holding the holy symbol.

I actually understood better before the edit. The Crystal ball comparison shows what's happening.

Azzy · Feb 22, 2019

OverlordOcelot said:
This doesn't appear to stop someone from snagging the weapon and using it themselves,

They can grasp at it, but taking it away from you and using it would be impossible because it's tethered to your arm. Also, said enemy would need to have to weight whether trying to grab a dangling weapon is actually worth more than directly attacking the character (or using some other action)...

Also, this is not AL or RAW legal as it's not a piece of equipment listed in the PHB, it's a custom piece of equipment that you're trying to get really, really favorable rules for using.

Well, damn. By that "logic", since there's a lot of things not listed in the PHB equipment lists, I guess they don't exist in D&D-land either. LOL

I'm thinking that if it's a weak tether then it's an easy STR check to pull a weapon free from it, and if it's a strong tether then grabbing the sword puts you into a grapple without you getting to contest,

I don't see the logic in not getting to contest, but you do you.

and forces you spend your next action breaking the grapple if you want to get the sword back. And this isn't a harsh ruling, this is just trying to be sensible about how having a sword dangling from a chain works.

Well, if the opponent finds doing so worthwile over performing some other action... Go for it. It might just lead to a more interesting combat.

guachi · Feb 22, 2019

Satyrn said:
Okay. Then it's the rule itself that's weird.

Sweet. Now I can't be accused of being a WotC shill who thinks they can do no wrong.

The game, of course, doesn't actually tell us what the somatic gestures are for most spells (off the top of my head I recall fireball stating you pointed and burning hands is palms facing away from you with thumb and forefinger touching thumb and forefinger of other hand). But we can imagine a spell with somatic but not material components requiring more complex hand movements or perhaps a spell like cure wounds requiring you to actually touch the target with a free hand.

At least, that's how I imagine the game works.

Dessert Nomad · Feb 22, 2019

Azzy said:
They can grasp at it, but taking it away from you and using it would be impossible because it's tethered to your arm. Also, said enemy would need to have to weight whether trying to grab a dangling weapon is actually worth more than directly attacking the character (or using some other action)...

No, using it would be perfectly possible, they just grab it, now they're holding it, and they swing it at you. You're stuck because you're now grappled as they have ahold of you. They wouldn't need any 'trying' to grab a dangling weapon any more than you have to, they just grab it and swing it at you using the same actions you would - only now it's putting you at a disadvantage because it's also attached to your body by this unbreakable tether.

Well, damn. By that "logic", since there's a lot of things not listed in the PHB equipment lists, I guess they don't exist in D&D-land either. LOL

Unbreakable tethers that don't hinder your movement or use of the weapon but that prevent enemies from grabbing the weapon or using the tether to grapple you are way outside of standard rules. Getting surprised that people take a feat that allows you to cast a spell with a weapon in hand instead of relying on the DM to inventing special rules for super tethers that don't work like any real-world object and give you a way to completely bypass the drawbacks of a RAW option is just silly. The 'oh, put it on a tether' solution fails both RAW and realism analysis.

I don't see the logic in not getting to contest, but you do you.

Because you attached a tether with a handle on the end of it to your body. They can just grab the handle on the loose weapon with their free action, the same way you do. Since the tether is attached to you, they are now grappling you. Attaching chains with convenient gripping handles to your body is not a smart idea.

Ristamar · Feb 22, 2019

guachi said:
The game, of course, doesn't actually tell us what the somatic gestures are for most spells (off the top of my head I recall fireball stating you pointed and burning hands is palms facing away from you with thumb and forefinger touching thumb and forefinger of other hand). But we can imagine a spell with somatic but not material components requiring more complex hand movements or perhaps a spell like cure wounds requiring you to actually touch the target with a free hand.

At least, that's how I imagine the game works.

When casting with an engraved/emblazoned shield, I'm fairly certain that Crawford explained that presenting the holy symbol (as the material component) on the shield is the somatic component.

Here Are The Most Popular D&D Feats (War Caster Leads The Pack!)

Parmandur

Book-Friend

Satyrn

First Post

Dessert Nomad

Adventurer

pukunui

Legend

Satyrn

First Post

Satyrn

First Post

Azzy

ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ

guachi

Hero

Dessert Nomad

Adventurer

Ristamar

Adventurer

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